From the Rav’s Desk: Saying Shemoneh Esrei out loud for the sake of Kedusha

Question: [Wednesday, 28th Marcheshvan, 5782]

We were only eight people in Shul for Mincha, and being that it was already very late, several minutes after sunset, five of us began Shemoneh Esrei without a minyan, and afterwards two people showed up. My question is regarding what we should do in such a case that we now have a minyan, and if it’s possible for someone who did not yet Daven Mincha, to Daven aloud in order for us to recite Kedusha. Is an individual allowed to recite Shemoneh Esrei out loud for the sake of Kedusha, or is this only allowed to be done if there is a minyan who davened together and Chazaras Hashatz is being performed?


So long as it is before Tzeis Hakochavim, it is permitted for someone to begin Shemoneh Esrei out loud until after Kedusha, and have the rest of the congregation answer Kedusha, and have him then continue the rest of his Shemoneh Esrei quietly. In such a case, one of the individuals who has yet to Daven Shemoneh Esrei should be the one to do the above, and hence recite until Hakeil Hakadosh out loud within his own private Shemoneh Esrei, and then continue quietly from there onward. [To note, that in the event that there were six people who Davened Shemoneh Esrei together, then a full and proper Chazaras Hashatz can be performed once a Minyan arrives, even though there was no minyan present at the time that they Davened Shemoneh Esrei.]

Explanation: It is a clear ruling in the Poskim, including the shulchan aruch of Admur, that Shemoneh Esrei may be recited out loud for the sake of the recital of kedusha even if they did not pray Shemoneh Esrei together, and hence it does not have the status of Chazaras Hashatz, so long as there is a minyan in the room. The Poskim debate whether this allowance applies only in the case that at least six people did not yet hear Kedusha, or even if only one person did not hear it, and practically Admur concludes that it is best to be initially stringent to find six people who did not yet hear Kedusha, although if this is not possible then it may be done even if only one person did not hear. In the above case, this dispute does not apply being that we are discussing the case that nobody in the minyan has yet to hear the kedusha of Mincha. In such a case, the Poskim rule that a person who has yet to recite Shemoneh Esrei should be the one designated to recite his Shemoneh Esrei out loud for the sake of Kedusha, rather than have someone who already Davened his private Shemoneh Esrei to repeat it for the sake of Kedusha, even though technically according to Admur, this may also be done in a case that everyone there has already Davened Shemoneh Esrei. Now, being that this out loud Shemoneh Esrei is only being done for the sake of the kedusha, and is being said by the person who is praying his own private Shemoneh Esrei, therefore he should only say it out loud until the blessing of Hakeil Hakadosh, and from there onward he should proceed quietly as usual. Another matter that one must make sure of when saying Shemoneh Esrei out loud for the sake of the Kedusha, is that is that there are at least six people answering to the Kedusha [including the Chazan, 5 + the Chazan=6], in addition to the need of course for there to be a minyan in the room. Thus, if five people are still in middle of their Shemoneh Esrei, then kedusha cannot be done if there are only five people [including the Chazan] in the room who can answer.

The Chabad custom: Regarding the Chabad custom in the above matter, while there is no official stance on the subject that I am aware of that is recorded in Chabad literature, in practice, we have not seen this done, in contrast to other communities. Nonetheless, certainly there is a difference between a case in which a single individual arrived late to the minyan and desires to say his Shemoneh Esrei out loud in front of the congregation so he personally can gain the Kedusha, which certainly is not the Chabad custom to perform and has been negated in some Sefarim, versus our case above in which there was no minyan to begin with, and a minyan arrived after they already Davened Shemoneh Esrei. Therefore, in my opinion even according to the Chabad custom that we see in practice, there is no contradiction in the above case to follow the letter of the law and have someone say his Shemoneh Esrei out loud for the sake of meriting everyone there in the mitzvah of Kedusha.

Sources: See Admur 69:4-5; 55:7 [that need 6 answers]; Michaber 69:1; Tehila Ledavid 69:2; Ashel Avraham Butchach 69; Biur Halacha 69:1 “Omer”; Imrei Yosher 2:9; Afrasakta Deanya 2:16; Minchas Yitzchak 1:57 and 10:107; Piskeiy Teshuvos 69:1; See regarding custom to avoid saying Shemoneh Esrei out loud for the sake of Kedusha: Darkei Chaim Veshalom 121 “The Kedusha and Barchu of individuals said who Daven in private do not become elevated above” See regarding performing Chazaras Hashatz if six people Davened Shemoneh Esrei together even if there was no minyan yet in the room at that time, and a minyan then arrived: Kaf Hachaim 69:1; Shnos Chaim 6:14 in name of Kesher Gudal 18 [did not find in Kesher Gudal]; Minchas Yitzchak 10:107; Peri Hasadeh 2:97; Imrei Yosher 2:9; Maharshag 1:9; Piskeiy Teshuvos 69:1; No mention is made in Admur 69:4 that there must be ten people in the room during Shemoneh Esrei in order to say Chazaras Hashatz

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