To purchase this Sefer, click here
7. Heating liquid that was previously cooked to the point of Yad Soledes:[1]
Important note: Wherever it is explained here that it is permitted to heat a food, it may only be heated through being on or very near a fire if the conditions that are explained in “The laws of Chazara” are fulfilled. See there!
A precooked liquid that cooled below 110 Fahrenheit: All liquid substances [See Q&A 5-8] are [forbidden to be] cooked [even] after having been previously cooked. Thus a liquid dish which was already fully cooked and cooled off, even if it did not cool off completely but is no longer [hot to the point of] Yad Soledes[2], if one heats it on Shabbos until it reaches [the heat of] Yad Soledes, he is liable for cooking.[3] [See Q&A 4]
A liquid which is still 110 Fahrenheit or above: However, if it [the precooked liquid dish] was [still] hot to the point of Yad Soledes and one then further heated it, there is no cooking [prohibition involved]. [Furthermore it] is allowed even initially to be [further] heated near a bonfire, although not very close to the fire, as will be explained. (Whether it is [also] allowed to be placed on a stove top was explained in the laws of Chazara). [See Q&A 2]
Other Opinions: [However] there are opinions[4] who say that even if [the precooked liquid] has [already] completely cooled down there is no [prohibition in] cooking it after [it having been previously] cooked, and it is thus allowed to be heated on Shabbos near a fire in a situation that no suspicion exists that one may come to stoke [the coals]. [See Q&A 1]
The Final Ruling:[5] The custom is to be lenient if [the liquid food] has not yet completely cooled down and is rather still fit to be eaten due to its heat[6]. [See Q&A 3 and 9] However if it completely cooled down then we are accustomed like the first opinion….. regarding doing anything [to this liquid] which involves a cooking prohibition.
The law if one transgressed and re-heated cold liquid: If the liquid completely cooled down, we are accustomed like the first opinion even regarding a case that one already heated it [and thus the food would be forbidden to be eaten] as was explained in chapter 253 [Halacha 25][7].
The law if one transgressed and asked a gentile to heat it near the fire[8]: (even if the Jew commanded the gentile to return it) if he returned it (even the Jew himself[9]) to an area where there are opinions which permit this to be done even initially, such as to place it near an oven[10] that is not swept or covered, or next to a bonfire, food that was completely cooked but has liquid which has completely cooled down, and [by placing it near the fire] it heated up there until it became Yad Soledes, then even though [transgressing such a prohibition according to some opinions] makes one liable to bring a Chatas offering (for the Jew) [if the Jew placed the food there], nevertheless, since there are opinions which allow this to be done even initially as will be explained in 318, [therefore] one may rely on their words after the fact (to not forbid the food placed on by the gentile, even if the Jew commanded him to do so).
Warming it up on a heater which will eventually turn on: Even to place it on top of a heater prior to it being lit by a gentile in order for it to heat up when it gets lit is forbidden as explained there [in chapter 253 Halacha 27].
Practically[11]: Any food that was already fully cooked but cooled down a little, even though it is not hot to the point of Yad Soledes, [nevertheless] if it is [still] slightly hot to the point that it is edible due to its heat, the custom is to be lenient that [re-cooking] it does not involve the cooking prohibition and it is [thus] permitted to be placed on top of a hot pot or kettle [which is on a fire, even] in order to heat it a lot.
|
Summary of Re-cooking a precooked liquid:[12] If is still Yad Soledes: Does not contain any cooking prohibition and thus is permitted according to all to cook by a fire [in ways explained in chapter 253] or to place in any pot of food that was heated on a fire and is now off the fire. If is no longer Yad Soledes but is still hot enough to be eaten: The custom is to be lenient and allow it to be further warmed in the permissible ways explained in chapter 253. If is cooled off to the point that it is no longer hot enough to eat: The custom is to be stringent that reheating contains a cooking prohibition [even after the fact and thus the food is forbidden to be eaten on Shabbos, Vetzaruch Iyun from 253]. If, however, a gentile heated it near a fire one may be lenient to eat it on Shabbos.
Q&A What is the definition of Yad Soledes according to the Michaber?[13] One should be stringent to consider 71 degrees Fahrenheit as Yad Soledes in this regard.
What is the definition of a liquid food?[14] The food must be completely dry and not contain any moisture at all.[15] If a food has enough moisture to be Tofeiach Al Menas Lehatfiach, it receives the same law as a liquid.[16] This means that a solid food must be dry to the point that it’s moisture cannot wet one’s finger enough to make a further finger wet.[17] In such a case it is considered dry[18], even if it contains liquid inside of it, such as by a piece of meat. If any part of the solid contains this amount of moisture, then it has the same laws as a liquid even if majority of the solid is dry.[19] · Example: Spaghetti for soup may not be placed in a Keli Rishon if it has the amount of moisture stated above. [It may however be placed in a Keli Sheiyni and even have soup from a ladle taken from a Keli Rishon poured onto it in any case.[20]]
Does water have an Issur Bishul when it cools down? Some Poskim[21] rule that according to all Poskim water that has completely cooled down to the point that all people would heat it, has a Biblical prohibition to heat it up even according to the Rama.
When is a liquid considered pre-cooked?[22] When it has been previously cooked to the point of Yad Soledes. Others however hold it must be cooked until boiling point. If it has been cooked to less than Yad Soledes according to all there is a Biblical prohibition to further heat it on Shabbos even if it is still hot.
· If a liquid had been originally cooked to only Yad Soledes and is still warm may it be heated even past Yad Soledes, to boiling point?[23] Yes, as once it has been cooked to Yad Soledes it is considered cooked.[24] However there are Poskim[25] who rule one is to be stringent in this.
Should one ideally be stringent like the Michaber’s opinion which holds that so long as the liquid is below Yad Soledes it is forbidden to reheat it? The M”B[26] writes, based on an implication from the Magen Avraham, that although we are accustomed to be lenient, nevertheless it is proper to be stringent like the Michaber. However, from the Alter Rebbe it is implied that we do not hold at all like the opinion of the Michaber. See Shabbos Kehalacha Vol. 1 p. 140 for a further analysis on this subject.
Does Lach have an Issur Bishul if it is Mitztamek Vera Lo? If the precooked liquid which has fully cooled down had cooked to the point of “condensing in a way damaging for the owner” is it still forbidden to reheat? [27] Some Poskim[28] rule it does not have a prohibition of reheating even according to the stringent opinion if the food is Mitztamek Vera Lo. Others[29] however rule the same prohibition applies. Practically according to Admur it is forbidden.
Is fruit juice considered a liquid?[30] Yes.
Is pure jam or paste, and the like of other pure fruit/vegetable pastes, considered like a liquid or solid?[31] This matter is disputed amongst Poskim. The Igros Moshe rules that a liquid substance is determined by whether or not it can flow, and thus considers all pastes like a liquid[32]. However, Rav SZ”A rules that ketchup has the status of Yaveish being that it derives from tomato paste, and something which was originally a solid remains a solid even when its turned into a flowing paste.
· Is ketchup considered a liquid?[33] This is subject to the above dispute and thus according to the Igros Moshe that a liquid substance is determined by whether or not it can flow, ketchup is a liquid[34]. Now, although ketchup is precooked, nevertheless since it is considered a liquid it thus contains the cooking restrictions being that it is cold.
· May one reheat a doughnut with jam inside? If the jam is not made of pure fruit, then according to all it has the status of a liquid. If it is made from pure fruit, it is subject to the dispute mentioned above by ketchup.
If the liquid fully cooled down, and then became reheated[35] may one place it into a Keli Rishon?[36] No. It only remains permitted to be further heated when it is still warm due to the heat of a Keli Rishon.[37]
May one use a wet spoon or ladle to remove soup from a pot that is off the fire? No. See the laws of a Keli Rishon-Q&A there!
May one pour Keli Rishon water back into a Keli Rishon? Only if it has yet to cool off, and the Keli Rishon is off the fire.
I poured 10 bowls of soup from the Keli Rishon soup pot which is now on the counter. By the time the tenth bowl was ready to be served, it had managed to become cold and I went ahead and poured it back into the Keli Rishon. What is the law of the Keli Rishon soup? May it be eaten on Shabbos? This matter requires further analysis.[38] Nonetheless, if this was done without consent of the parent of the home then seemingly at the very least it would remain permitted for all the other family members to eat on Shabbos.[39] |
|
Question: [Motzei Shabbos, 26th Teves 5781] I have a general question that comes up on Shabbos every so often that I would like to know. Am I allowed to pour directly from the hot water urn on Shabbos into a cup of hot water that I had previously taken out of that same urn? For example, if I made myself a Tea in a Keli Shelishi, and the Tea is no longer hot, can I add more hot water to it directly from the urn or must I use a Keli Sheiyni. Also, regarding soup, I have the same question, regarding if I can pour myself a second serving even though there still some broth left in my original bowl.
Answer: Adding more water from the urn into a cup of plain hot/warm water: For Ashkenazim, it is permitted to add more hot water directly from the urn into a cup of water that one had removed from that urn, so long as the water that has remained in the cup is still somewhat warm to the point it would still be served as a warm drink. In such a case it is permitted to add more water even if one had poured the water into a second or third vessel. Furthermore, according to some Poskim, it is even permitted for Ashkenazim to add more water directly from the urn into the cup even if the water has cooled off completely, although one who is stringent is blessed. However, according to Sephardim, some Poskim rule that it is always forbidden to add anymore hot water directly from the urn into the cup even if the water is still Yad Soledes being that the water has been moved into a second vessel [Keli Sheiyni] and is thus considered as if it is cold according to their opinion. All the more so would it be forbidden for them to do so if the water is no longer Yad Soledes. Adding more water from the urn into a cup of tea: Even according to Ashkenazim, it would be forbidden to add more hot water directly from the urn into the cup of tea, even if the water is still very hot, being that the tea itself has not yet been cooked, and was made using a Iruiy Keli Sheiyni or Keli Shelishi, and hence now when one comes to add more hot water to it directly from the urn this is considered Iruiy Keli Rishon which has ability to now cook the tea. Now, even if one were to remove the teabag before adding more hot water to it, it would seem that it would still be forbidden to add hot water directly from the urn, being that the particles from the teabag that have now entered into the water and turned it into tea would still have a cooking prohibition. Vetzaruch Iyun. Adding a second serving of soup: This follows the same ruling as adding more hot water directly from the urn into a cup of plain hot/warm water, and hence so long as the soup is still lukewarm, Ashkenazim may add a second serving directly into it, and even if the liquid has already fully cooled off, those Ashkenazim who are lenient have upon whom to rely, although one who is stringent to first wash and dry the bowl, or take a new bowl, is blessed. Sephardim, however, must take a new bowl, or wash and dry the previous bowl, in all cases.
Explanation: There is a debate between the Ashkenazi and Sephardi Poskim regarding if we apply the rule of cooking after cooking by liquids that are no longer Yad Soledes, with the Sephardim being stringent to consider it a Biblical prohibition, and the Ashkenazim being lenient so long as the liquid is not fully cool down. Now, regarding if liquid that is in a Keli Sheiyni is Halachically considered cold even though its temperature is still hot, some Poskim rule that it is to be treated as if it is cold. However, this stringency only applies for the Sephardim, while for Ashkenazim we view it as hot so long as the temperature has not cooled off. Now, regarding if Ashkenazim are stringent by fully cooled off liquid even by Iruiy Keli Rishon, or only by a Keli Rishon, this matter is debated amongst the Poskim and the Tzemach Tzedek and Ketzos Hashulchan conclude that one may be lenient although one who is stringent is blessed.
Sources: Regarding the dispute if we apply Bishul Achar Bishul Bedavar Lach, see: Admur 318:9; Michaber 318:4; Rama 318:15; Regarding the status of a Keli Sheiyni in this regard and if we consider is as cold, see: P”M 318 A”A 12; Biur Halacha 318 “Im”; Iglei Tal Bishul 11-8; Admur 253:14 [invalidates Mimeicham Limeicham only because of Michzi Kimivashel and not because of Bishul Achar Bishul]; Shabbos 38b; Shaareiy Tziyon 253:47; Piskeiy Teshuvos 318 footnote 227; Shabbos Kehalacha pages 365-356 [writes is permitted even for Sephardim!]; Regarding if we apply this stringency of Bishul Achar Bishul Bedavar Lach even by Iruiy Keli Rishon, see: Tzemach Tzedek Mishnayos Shabbos 3, brought in Ketzos Hashulchan ibid footnote 31; Ketzos Hashulchan 124:12; Shevisas Hashabbos Hakdama Mivashel 19; Or Letziyon 2:30-10; Beis Meir brought in Biur Halacha “Vehu” that those who are lenient do not need to be protested; Igros Moshe 4:74 Bishul 18; Piskeiy Teshuvos 318:51; See the following Poskim that one may always pour liquid of a Keli Rishon onto water, even if not cooked: Admur 318:20; Taz 318:18; Tosafos Pesachim 40b; Tur 318; Rashba, Ran and Rif on Shabbos 20a; Elya Raba Y.D. 68; Peri Megadim Yoreh Deah 68; Iglei Tal Ofeh 29; Tzemach Tzedek Mishnayos Shabbos 3:5, brought in Ketzos Hashulchan 124:12 footnote 31, and Tehilah Ledavid 318, in understanding of Michaber/Admur. |
________________________________________________________
[1] Admur 318:9; Michaber 318:4
[2] Admur ibid; Beis Yosef; M”A; M”B 318:24;
How much is Yad Soledes? Approximately 110 Fahrenheit. The amount of heat that one would remove his hand from there upon touching.
[3] This is the opinion of the Michaber 318:4; Rashi; Rabbeinu Yonah; Rosh
Keli Sheiyni heat: According to this opinion even if the water is still Yad Soledes but had been placed into a Keli Sheiyni, it is prohibited to further heat it. [Peri Megadim, brought in Biur Halacha 318 “Im Nitztanen”; Shabbos Kehalacha p. 139]
Iruiy Keli Rishon heat: May pour onto a Keli Rishon that is not on fire.
[4] Rama 318:15; Magid Mishneh Shabbos 22:4 in name of Rashba Shabbos 40b; Ran Shabbos 19a
[5] Admur ibid; Rama 318:15
[6] Admur ibid; Rama 253:5; Igros Moshe 4:74
[7] Vetzaruch Iyun as there the Alter Rebbe rules in parentheses that even if a Jew himself heats up liquid food it is allowed to be eaten being that there are opinions which permit this even initially.
[8] Admur 253:25; See M”B 318:2 in name of Peri Megadim
[9] Meaning the above allowance applies even if the Jew himself placed it there, and certainly if a gentile placed it there based on his command. However, Tzaruch Iyun from Chapter 318:9 that the Alter Rebbe rules that the custom is that if a Jew himself heats up near liquid food which has fully cooled down, that it is prohibited even after the fact. Perhaps however here the Alter Rebbe is mentioning the letter of the law, that it is permitted, while there he is mentioning the custom, which is to be stringent.
[10] However, to place such food on an oven is forbidden according to all being that the food in this case has completely cooled down, and thus would be prohibited after the fact.
[11] Admur 318:14
[12] Admur 318: 9
[13] Piskeiy Teshuvos 253
[14] Shabbos Kehalacha Vol. 1 p. 24 and p. 142
[15] Admur 253:19; 318:11; 318:17; Chasam Sofer 74; Divrei Nechemia p. 36 in Hosafos; Ketzos Hashulchan 124 footnote 37; Igros Moshe 4:74:7; Or Letziyon 2:30:13; Rav Yaakov Yosef severely negated the lenient opinion of Rabbeinu Yerucham and told Sefaradi askers they cannot rely on it Chas Veshalom even if there is a small amount of gravy on fish.
Background:
Admur 253:19: [Furthermore] even if the food [which one wants to return] is completely cooked but it has already completely cooled down, then it is forbidden to return it in all cases, even if it is a type of food which reheating it does not consist of a prohibition of cooking, such as is the case with a dry food that has no liquid at all that is fully cooked,
Admur 318:11: Dry food which contains no liquid at all is [permitted to be] cooked after having been previously cooked as long as it was already fully cooked, even if it completely cooled down.
Admur 318:17: Nevertheless, ox meat is forbidden to place inside a Keli Rishon [that is off the fire] as although the meat [itself] will not cook, nevertheless the moisture that is on it will cook. Although if [the meat] is completely dry and does not have on it any moisture at all [then it is allowed].
Chasam Sofer 74: “Only if the coffee is completely dry and contains no moisture at all”
Divrei Nechemia p. 36: “This opinion [if the Minchas Kohen] is Muktzah Min Hadaas and is based on a mistaken Nussach in the Rabbeinu Yerucham.
Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that so long as majority of the food is dry [solid] it is permitted to place it on the fire even if it contains a minority of liquid. [Nussach of Rabbeinu Yerucham in Beis Yosef 253; Minchas Kohen Mishmeres Hashabbos 2:2; Iglei Tal Ofeh 34; P”M 253 M”Z 13; Kaf Hachaim 318:62] This is because when majority of the food is a solid one does not have in mind to cook the liquid and in such a case one may even initially rely on those Poskim that are lenient to say there is no Bishul after Bishul by liquids. [Iglei Tal ibid]
[16] Ketzos Hashulchan 124 footnote 37
[17] Admur 613:14
[18] Ketzos Hashulchan 124 footnote 37 although there he leaves this with a Tzaruch Iyun.
[19] Divreiy Nechemiah ibid; Igros Moshe ibid; Or Letziyon ibid unlike Minchas Kohen ibid that hold that we follow majority.
[20] Shabbos Kehalacha p. 145
[21] Iglei Tal Ofeh 8
[22] Shabbos Kehalacha Vol. 1 p. 195
[23] Shabbos Kehalacha Vol. 1 p. 195-198
[24] So rules Igros Moshe 4:74 based on Admur Halacha 9 that it is permitted to boil it; Az Nidbaru 9:14 seemingly retracting his ruling in Bris Olam; Olas Shabbos 318:12; Shevisas Shabbos 18; Iglei Tal Ofeh 8
[25] The Tehila Ledavid 318:17 leaves this in doubt, as well as Rav SZ”A in SSH”K 1 footnote 96. The Igleiy Tal in Hashmatos rules that it is forbidden to further heat it. This retracts from his ruling in the “Ofeh” 8 in Iglei Tal. The Sheivet Haleivi 7:42 and Minchas Yitzchak 10:28 lean to be stringent.
[26] Admur 253:84
[27] Background: The Rama [318:4] rules that it is only forbidden in a case of “condensing in a beneficial way for the owner”. However, the Michaber rules that it is forbidden even in a case of “condensing in a damaging way”. The Taz rules like the Rama. The Bach and M”B rules like the Michaber and so is evident from the Admur, from the fact that he does not make mention of any differentiation.
[28] Rama 318:4; Rabbeinu Yerucham; Taz 318:4
[29] Bach; Gra; M”A 318:13; Admur in 318:9 completely omits this Rama; M”B 318:25
[30] Shabbos Kehalacha Vol. 1 p. 147
[31] Shabbos Kehalacha p. 147
[32] So rules Igros Moshe 4:74
[33] Shabbos Kehalacha Vol. 1 p. 95 and p. 144, p. 147
[34] So rules Igros Moshe 4:74. However Rav SZ”A rules that ketchup has the status of Yaveish being that it derives from tomato paste, and something which was originally a solid remains a solid even when its turned into a flowing paste. [Shabbos Kehalacha p. 147]
[35] Such as by placing it into a Keli Sheiyni or in the sun.
[36] Shabbos Kehalacha Vol. 1 p. 141
[37] So rules Rav Akivah Eiger [253] , Avnei Nezer [129] and Tehila Ledavid.
[38] On the one hand we concluded above that the custom is to be stringent like the first opinion who holds it there is a cooking prohibition in reheating liquids that have cooled off and hence even after the fact the custom is to prohibit the food. On the other hand, perhaps one can argue that this custom only applies against eating the food plain, however if the food got mixed with another food then perhaps there is no custom to be stringent and it is therefore nullified in majority.
[39] See Piskeiy Teshuvos 253:11 based on Mahrshag 2:130; Imrei Yosher 1:129; Michzeh Eliyahu 1:53; Migdanos Eliyahu 2:150; 3:1
Leave A Comment?
You must be logged in to post a comment.