From the Rav’s Desk: Eating fish with Pareve food that was baked in oven simultaneously with meat

  1. Question: [Monday 8th Shevat 5782]

I baked potatoes in my oven together at the same time that I was baking chicken. Both were uncovered when they were baking. May I eat these potatoes together with fish?



No, the potatoes are considered meaty and are not to be eaten with fish.

Explanation: It is forbidden to eat meat and fish together due to danger, and this danger applies whenever the flesh or gravy of meat and fish mix together. Now, whenever one cooks thing simultaneously in an oven there is a question of whether the tastes of the food mixed with each other due to the smell and vapor that they expel into the oven. [In the event that the foods are covered, then this is not a worry being that the vapor and smell of the foods do not escape the cover. However, if it is uncovered, then the problem begins.] In the ovens of previous times, the issue of vapor was very scarce being that the ovens were very large and contained large chimney holes which allowed the vapor to escape before falling back onto the foods. Accordingly, the only issue that the Poskim dealt with in cases of foods that were baked simultaneously in the same oven, is the issue of smell, of which we rule Bedieved that “Reicha Lav Milsa Hi,” that smell of a food is not an issue, and hence even if one baked fish and meat in the same oven while both were uncovered, many Poskim rule that they remained permitted [although some are stringent], and hence certainly if one baked a Pareve food at the same time as meat that the food may later be eaten with fish, and so conclude the Poskim. However, this ruling was only truly by the ovens of previous times, however, by the ovens of today the Poskim conclude that there is an additional issue of vapor, and hence the law changes. Vapor commonly carries the actual substance of the product. Accordingly, when one bakes the uncovered meat in the same oven as a Pareve food, the vapor of the meat enters into the Pareve food hence prohibiting it from being eaten with fish, and hence we concluded above to be stringent, and so conclude other Poskim of today.

Sources: Chelkas Binyamin 11; Ohel Yaakov 116:57 footnote 78 in name of Rav Shternbuch and other Morei Hora’s to be stringent [and in name of Rav Dovid Feinstein, Shaareiy Toras Habayis 6:8, and Avnei Yashpei and Yalkut Yosef 10:88 to be lenient especially by chicken] See regarding baking fish and meat simultaneously in same oven of previous times, regarding if we say Reicha Milsa Hi: Rama Y.D. 116:2 that one may not do so due to Reicha, although Bedieved it is permitted; Darkei Moshe 116:3; Toras Chatas 76:11; Issur Viheter 39:25 and 29; Rashal in Yam Shel Shlomo Chulin 7:15 [lenient]; Shach 116:1 [lenient]; Derisha 116:5 [stringent]; Peri Chadash 116:4 in name of Beir Sheva 35 that Reicha is forbidden even bedieved by fish and meat due to Sakana Chamira Meissura; Peri Toar 116:3 [stringent by fatty meat/fish]; Stringent by small oven: Minchas Yaakov 86:26; Lechem Hapanim 116:3; Beis Lechem Yehuda 116:4;  Chochmas Adam 68:1; See Ran Chulin 93b; Kneses Hagedoal 116:18; Darkei Teshuvah 116:22; Kaf Hachaim 116:23-24; Halacha Berurah O.C. 173:9  See regarding baking meat and bread simultaneously in same oven of previous times, that we say Reicha Lav Milsa Hi and is permitted even initially to eat with fish: Taz 116:2  [even if oven is closed]; Issur Viheter Hagahos 39:30; Kneses Hagedola 116:19; Minchas Yaakov 77:26; Lechem Hapanim 116:3; Beis Lechem Yehuda 116:4; Chochmas Adam 68:1; Chasam Sofer on 116:2; Zivcheiy Tzedek 116:15; Darkei Teshuvah 116:22; Kaf Hachaim 116:15; Halacha Berurah O.C. 173:9 See regarding the issue of vapor: Michaber and Rama Y.D. 92:8; 108:1 regarding baking under the same roofing which causes Zeiah, which is Mamashus to travel; See regarding the status of today’s ovens: Igros Moshe Y.D. 1:40 in length for the Zeiah concerns in our ovens and that they have the same status as a pan placed over two uncovered foods, brought in Rama 108:1; Maharsham 3:208; Minchas Yitzchak 5:20; Chelkas Yaakov 2:136; Kinyan Torah 1:24; Badei Hashulchan 92:166; Darkei Halacha p. 242

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