Eating Pareve food cooked in a meat pot with dairy dishes or vice versa

Eating Pareve food cooked in a meat pot with dairy dishes or vice versa:[1]

*To note, that at times one may even eat a Pareve food that was cooked in a meat or dairy vessel together with actual meat/dairy, although it is beyond the scope of this article to delve into this question, and the article will only focus on when the Pareve food may be eaten with the opposite utensil. The former matter was discussed at length in a previous article.

If a Pareve food was cooked in a meat or dairy pot then the law regarding whether the food may be eaten with the opposite type of utensil, is dependent on the following factors:

1. Was the Pareve food a Davar Charif or does it contain a Davar Charif?
2. Was the pot clean from residue of meat/milk?

Pareve food is Charif:[2] If a Pareve Charif/sharp food was cooked in a meat pot then even if the pot was clean and not Ben Yomo, the food becomes meaty and is forbidden to be eaten with dairy[3] [and is likewise not to be eaten with dairy utensils just like actually meat[4] and Bedieved if one did so in certain cases the utensils must be Koshered[5]].

• Example: If one fried onions in a meat frying pan, it is not to be eaten with dairy utensils, and the same applies vice versa.

Pot contains meat/dairy residue:[6] If the meat pot contained meat residue [i.e. fat and oil] upon the non-Charif Pareve food being cooked in it, then the Pareve food is meaty and may not be eaten with milk. If, however, the Pareve food contains 60x versus the meat residue and the pot was not Ben Yomo[7], then the food remains Pareve and follows the same law to be explained next. [In general, we assume that the Pareve food in the pot contains 60x versus the fat residue unless one knows for certain that it does not.[8] However, if one only cooked a small amount of Pareve in the pot, then we assume it does not contain 60x, unless one knows for certain that it does.[9]]

Pot is clean and no Charif:[10] If one cooked a non-Charif if the meat pot was Pareve food in a clean dairy or meat pot then the food may even initially be eaten [and re-heated[11]] with opposite utensils. This applies even if the pot was Ben Yomo.[12] [This applies even if the Pareve food is still hot. This applies according to all opinions.[13]] However, there are  restrictions regarding if one may pour this food while still hot directly into a opposite vessel, or use the opposite vessel to scoop it out, as explained next.

• Example: If one cooked pasta in a clean meat pot, it may be eaten with dairy utensils, and the same applies vice versa.

Pouring the hot Pareve food from a Ben Yomo meat pot into a dairy pot:[14]  Although one may eat the non-Charif Pareve food with the opposite utensils, nonetheless, if the pot in which the pareve food was cooked was Ben Yomo, then it may not poured directly into an opposite vessel that is also Ben Yomo, so long as it is still hot.[15] Certainly, one may not mix it with an opposite vessel. Furthermore, one should avoid pouring it directly even into an opposite vessel that is not Ben Yomo.[16] Rather, in all these cases, a Keli Sheiyni is to be used to transfer the food from the Ben Yomo meat pot into the milk utensil, or vice versa.[17]

• Example: If one cooked pasta in a Ben Yomo meat pot, it may not be poured directly into dairy utensils, and the same applies vice versa. Rather, a Keli Sheiyni is to be used to transfer the pasta from the Ben Yomo meat pot into the milk utensil, or vice versa.

Pouring the hot Pareve food from a non-Ben Yomo meat pot into a dairy pot:[18] If the pot in which the pareve food was cooked in was not Ben Yomo, then seemingly it may even initially be poured directly into an opposite vessel which is Ben Yomo even it is still hot [although may not be mixed with the opposite Ben Yomo vessel while it still remains in the pot]. Nonetheless, one who is stringent not to do so seemingly has room for his stringency.[19] However, if the pot in which the pareve food was cooked was not Ben Yomo then it may even initially be poured into an opposite vessel which is also not Ben Yomo, so long as it is clean.

• Example: If one cooked pasta in a Non-Ben Yomo meat pot, it may be poured directly into dairy utensils, and the same applies vice versa, although some may be stringent in a case that the dairy utensil is Ben Yomo.

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[1] See Pesakim Uteshuvos 95:6 and our corresponding Sefer “The practical laws of Basar Bechalav”

[2] Rama 95:2; Implication of Aruch 24; Rashba 449; See also Michaber 103:6

[3] The reason: As the sharp food enriches the meaty taste of the pot and effects that its taste be considered Beiyn [direct taste from meat] and is thus no longer considered Nat Bar Nat. [Shach 95:7]

[4] Pashut, as this would have the same status of eating dairy with meat utensils or vice versa!

[5] What is the law if one cooked a sharp food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot and used a dairy vessel to mix it? If the dairy vessel is Ben Yomo everything is forbidden unless there is 60x in the food versus the vessel, in which case only the vessel is forbidden. If the vessel was not Ben Yomo, then if the sharp food was already cooked and no longer sharp by the time the dairy vessel was inserted, the food is Kosher while the dairy utensil must be Koshered. If the sharp food was still sharp by the time the vessel was inserted, everything is forbidden unless there is 60x in the food versus the vessel, in which case the vessel is to be Koshered and the food is Kosher. [See Hakashrus 10:117]

[6] Michaber 95:1

[7] This follows the ruling of Rama 95:2, however according to the Michaber, the food remains Pareve even if the pot was Ben Yomo, as explained next.

[8] Issur Viheter 33:2; Minchas Yaakov 57:11; P”M 95 S.D. 1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:11; Kaf Hachaim 95:13

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that we do not assume the food contains 60x the residue, unless one knows for certain. [Peri Toar 95:3]

[9] Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:11; Kaf Hachaim 95:14

[10] See Y.D. 95:1-2; Chulin 111b; Beis Yosef 95 and Aruch Hashulchan 95:1-14 for all the opinions in Rishonim

[11] Shach 95:5; Tiferes Lemoshe on Shach ibid; Rav Akiva Eiger Hashmatos; Chamudei Daniel Basar Bechalav 37; Pesakim Uteshuvos 95:6

[12] Rama Y.D. 95:2; Taz 95:5; Semak 213; Semag 140-141; Lechem Hapanim 95:8; Biur Hagra 95:8; See Chulin 111b that fish that were placed on a meat plate may be eaten with dairy, and this applies according to all opinions

The reason and explanation: The meat taste that the Pareve food contains has traveled from the meat to the pot and then from the pot to the Pareve food. This is called Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. The reason that this meat taste is not considered problematic with dairy vessels is because the meat taste which the Pareve food absorbed from the Ben Yomo pot is so indirect and diluted that it does not have sufficient intensity to merge with a milk vessel and cause a fusion of Basar Bechalav. [See Taz 95:1 and 5; Biur Hagr”a 95:8; Kneses Hagedola 95:24 in name of many Poskim; Peri Chadash 95:3; Lechem Hapanim 95:2; Rav Akiva Eiger in Hashmatos; Chochmas Adam 48:1 and 17; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:15; Kaf Hachaim 95:8; Pesakim Uteshuvos 95:6 footnote 45]

May one even initially cook in a meat Ben Yomo pot with intent to eat with a dairy vessel: Some Poskim rule one may even initially cook Pareve food in a Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat the food with milk utensils. [Peri Chadash 95:5 and 7; Derisha 95:2; Bach 95; Lechem Hapanim 95:9] Other Poskim, however, rule it is forbidden to do so unless it is a time of need. [P”M 95 M”Z 4 and 5; Toras Yekusiel 95:2; See Kaf Hachaim 95:26; Chochmas Adam 48:1-2; Shaareiy Yoreh Deah] See Beis Yosef 95:1; Pesakim Uteshuvos 95:6 footnote 50

May one even initially cook in a meat non-Ben Yomo pot with intent to eat with a dairy vessel: Yes. [Tehila Ledavid Y.D. 20; Implication of P”M ibid; Pesakim Uteshuvos 95:8]

[13] P”M 95 M”Z 5 based on Rosh; Kaf Hachaim 95:24

Other opinions by roasting: Some Poskim rule that Pareve food which was roasted in a Ben Yomo meat pot, is initially forbidden to be eaten with milk utensils. [Taz 95:4 and P”M 95 S.D. 4 in understanding of Rashal] We do not suspect for this opinion. [Darkei Teshuvah 95:23; Pesakim Uteshuvos 95:4 footnote 45]

[14] See Y.D. 95:3; Pesakim Uteshuvos 95:6 and 14 and footnote 49

[15] Both pots are clean and Ben Yomo: If one poured hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water from a clean Ben Yomo meat vessel onto a clean Ben Yomo dairy vessel, then it is disputed amongst Poskim as to whether the food, and the vessel into which it was poured onto, are forbidden. [Lenient: Michaber 94:9; Shach 95:5 and 17; Toras Chatas 57:12 that is permitted from letter of law, although the custom is to be stringent unless time of need; Peri Chadash 95:5; Issur Viheter; Bach 95:4; Masas Binyamin 2 “Whoever is stringent is doing a strange act”; Lechem Hapanim 95:7; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:5; Kreisi 95:5; Kaf Hachaim 95:27; 48; See Admur 447:45 and Piskeiy Yoreh Deah 95; Stringent: Rama 95:3; Taz 95:13; Chavas Daas 95:10; Toras Chatas 57:12 that is permitted from letter of law, although custom is to be stringent unless time of need] Certainly, this may not initially be done. [Pesakim Uteshuvos 95:6]

[16] See Rama 95:3; Taz 95:3; Shach 95:5 based on Rama 95:3; Kaf Hachaim Y.D. 95:27; O.C. 451:236; Admur 451:59; However, see Pesakim Uteshuvos 95:6 and footnote 139 who learns based on Kaf Hachaim 451:236 that if the bottom vessel is not Ben Yomo then it may even initially be poured, and it should only be initially avoided if both vessels are Ben Yomo, Vetzaruch Iyun Gadol and his understanding!

Background-Both pots are clean and at least one of the pots are not Ben Yomo: If one poured hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water from a clean Ben Yomo meat vessel onto a clean non-Ben Yomo dairy vessel then since the bottom vessel being poured into is not Ben Yomo, everything remains Kosher.  [Taz 95:13 based on Rama 95:3 agrees that if one of the pots were not Ben Yomo, everything is permitted] The same applies if the top vessel is not Ben Yomo, while the bottom vessel is Ben Yomo. [Peri Megadim 95 M.Z. 13] Nevertheless, Lechatchilah, one should not pour the food into the other vessel even if one of the pots is not Ben Yomo. [See Shach 95:5 based on Rama 95:3; Kaf Hachaim 95:27; So can be understood from Taz ibid who rules this way on a Bedieved case; Likewise, the wording of the Rama ibid simply states not to pour into a dairy vessel and does not stipulate whether its Ben Yomo or not. Likewise, Shach 95:5 also does not differentiate in this matter when discussing the stringent opinion of the Rama and implies that it may never be poured into any vessel, whether Ben Yomo or not. Now, why would the Rama possibly hold that there is a problem with the bottom vessel if it is not Ben Yomo if even he rules that when washing them in a Keli Rishon the non-Ben Yomo is Kosher? A suggestion could be that it is similar to the case in Rama 94:5 where one used a Ben Yomo spoon for a non-Ben Yomo pot and there the custom is to prohibit the non-Ben Yomo pot, even though from the letter of the law it is permitted, and perhaps the same applies here. Vetzaruch Iyun!]

[17] Shach 95:5 based on Rama 95:3; Kaf Hachaim 95:27

[18] See Pesakim Uteshuvos 95:6 and 14 and footnote 49

[19] See Taz 452 in end; Admur 451:59; Kaf Hachaim Y.D. O.C. 451:236; Peri Megadim ibid; Rama 95:3; Shach 95:5 based on Rama 95:3; Taz 95:13; Kaf Hachaim 95:27

See regarding the concept of Nitzuk Chibur by a stream: Rama 105:3 in name of Issur Viheter; Shach 105:11; Taz 105:6; Peri Megadim 105 M.Z. 6; Yad Avraham 105; Admur 451:59; Chavas Daas 91:6; Minchas Yaakov 57:24; Rashal Gid Hanasheh 37; Kneses Hagedola 95:54 in name of Masa Binyamin; Peri Megadim 95 M.Z. 13; Kanfei Yona based on Rashal Gid Hanashe 37, brought in Darkei Teshuvah 105:96Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:32; Kaf Hachaim 95:50