When does a traveler between Israel and Diaspora begin to say Visein Tal Umatar Livracha

From Eretz Yisrael to Diaspora

If an Israeli traveled to the diaspora before the 7^th of MarCheshvan is he to begin reciting Vesein Tal Umatar on the 7^th of MarCheshvan in the diaspora?[1]

If an Israeli traveled to the diaspora before the 7th of MarCheshvan it is disputed amongst Poskim as to whether he is to begin reciting Visein Tal Umatar Livracha upon the arrival of the 7^th of MarCheshvan. Some Poskim[2] rule that if he plans to return to Eretz Yisrael within the year, then he is to recite Vesein Tal Umatar starting from the 7^th of MarCheshvan as is done in Eretz Yisrael, his hometown.[3] If, however, he does not plan to return to Eretz Yisrael until after the passing of a year, [and certainly if he has decided to move to the Diaspora] then he is to recite it only starting from the 5^th of December.[4] Other Poskim[5], however, rule a traveler is to always follow the area that he is currently in irrelevant of when he plans to return, and hence he does not begin to recite Vesein Tal Umatar until the 5^th of December [or until he returns to Eretz Yisrael[6]].[7] This applies once he leaves the air space of Israel, even if he will be midflight from Israel during nightfall of the 7^th of Marcheshvan.[8] Practically, he is not to recite Vesein Tal Umatar in the blessing of Bareich Aleinu, but is to recite it in Shomeia Tefila starting from the 7^th of MarCheshvan until the 5^th of December.[9] If he is Chazan, then in his repetition of Shemoneh Esrei, he is to recite Vesein Bracha as is said in the Diaspora and not recite Visein Tal Umatar at all.[10] [There is no need for him to avoid being Chazan due to this reason.[11]] If he returns to Eretz Yisrael before the 5^th of December, then he is to begin reciting it in Bareich Aleinu as soon as he returns.[12] If one forgot to mention it between the 7^th of MarCheshvan and the 5^th of December while in the Diaspora, he is not required to repeat Shemoneh Esrei.[13]

If one traveled from Eretz Yisrael to the Diaspora between the 7^th of MarCheshvon and the 5^th December, is he to continue to say Vesein Tal Umatar in the Diaspora?

If one traveled from Eretz Yisrael to the Diaspora between the 7th of MarCheshvon and the 5th December, he is to continue to say Vesein Tal Umatar in the Diaspora.[14] This applies even if he traveled on the night of the 7^th of MarCheshvan and Davened Maariv beforehand.[15] If he is Chazan, he is to recite Visein Tal Umatar in his private prayer, however, in his repetition of Shemoneh Esrei, he is to recite Vesein Bracha as is said in the Diaspora.[16] [There is no need for him to avoid being Chazan due to this reason.[17]]

From Diaspora to Eretz Yisrael

If one traveled to Israel before the 7^th of MarCheshvan is he to begin reciting Vesein Tal Umatar on the 7^th of MarCheshvan?[18]

If one traveled from the diaspora to Israel before the 7th of MarCheshvan it is disputed amongst Poskim as to whether he is to begin reciting Visein Tal Umatar Livracha upon the arrival of the 7^th of MarCheshvan. Some Poskim[19] rule that if he plans to return to the Diaspora within the year, then he is to recite Vesein Tal Umatar starting from the 5^th of December as is done in the Diaspora, his hometown. If, however, he does not plan to return to the Diaspora until after the passing of a year, then he is to recite it starting from the 7^th of MarCheshvan.[20] Other Poskim[21], however, rule a traveler is to always follow the area that he is currently in irrelevant of when he plans to return, and hence he begins to recite Vesein Tal Umatar on the 7^th of MarCheshvan.[22] Practically, he is to recite Vesein Tal Umatar in the blessing of Bareich Aleinu starting from the 7^th of Mar Cheshvan, just like they do in Eretz Yisrael.[23] If, however, he returns to the Diaspora prior to the 5^th of December, he is to stop reciting it.[24] If one forgot to mention it between the 7^th of MarCheshvan and the 5^th of December while in Eretz Yisrael, he is not required to repeat Shemoneh Esrei.[25]

Does one who traveled from the Diaspora to Eretz Yisrael between the 7^th MarCheshvon and 5^th December begin to say Vesein Tal Umatar in Eretz Yisrael?

This matter is subject to the same dispute mentioned in the previous Q&A. Practically, one who traveled from the Diaspora to Eretz Yisrael between the 7^th MarCheshvon and the 5^th December is to begin saying Vesein Tal Umatar in Bareich Aleinu as soon as he arrives to Eretz Yisrael.[26] However, some Poskim[27] rule that one should say it in Shomeia Tefila.

______________________________________________________________________

[1] See Beir Heiytiv 117:4; Kaf Hachaim 117:11; M”B 117:5; Piskeiy Teshuvos 117:3

[2] Peri Chadash 117:2 [brought in Beir Heiytiv and M”B ibid]; Maharikash in Erech Lechem 117  [even if does not plan to return during rain season, he does not mention a difference in the law if he does not plan to return until years later]; Halachos Ketanos 1:74 in name of Maharikash; Radaz 5:55 [that if plan to return during rain season, or if he has a wife and children in Israel, then is to say]; See Shalmei Tizbur p. 128; P”M 117 M”Z 1 in name of Peri Chadash ibid; Gloss of Rav Akiva Eiger 117 [Hachadashos]; Shulchan Hatahor 117:3; Toras Chaim Sofer 117:3; Igros Moshe 2:102; Dvar Yehoshua 2:14; Mishneh Shlomo 1:7; Vayeishev Moshe 1:102

[3] The reason: As since he lives in Eretz Yisrael, he needs the benefits that the rains brings him there. [See Vayeishev Moshe 1:102]

[4] Peri Chadash ibid; P”M ibid; See other Poskim ibid in previous footnote [Maharikash, Halachos Ketanos, Radbaz] who do not explicitly make this differentiation and simply state that he is to say like Eretz Yisrael

[5] Birkeiy Yosef 117:5 in name of Maharaz Guto and Mahari Malko 67 and many other Gedolim in negation of Radbaz and Peri Chadash ibid [however see M”B ibid who understands them differently]; Dvar Shmuel 323; Kesher Gudal 16:13; See Shalmei Tzibur p. 129; Beis Oved 2; Beir Chaim 5 [of Rav Shmuel Vital]; Chesed Lealafim 117:14; Makor Chaim 117; Ketzos Hashulchan 21:10; Rebbe in Likkutei Sichos 19:464 [brought in Shulchan Menachem 1:77] brings like the opinion of Chida and that so rule majority of Achronim; Hiskashrus; Both opinions are brought in M”B 117:5 without a clear arbitration; See Birur Halacha 117:1; Rivivos Efraim 4:255

[6] See Beir Moshe 7:117 and Teshuvos Vehanhagos 2:55 that if he plans to return to Eretz Yisrael before the 5^th of December, he may begin saying it in the Diapsora

[7] The reason: As the request of rain is a personal need, and hence each person should request based on whether it is needed at that time in his current location. [Dvar Shmuel ibid] Alternatively, a single person is not to ask for rain alone until the congregation in his area begins to ask. [Birkeiy Yosef ibid] Perhaps this is due to Lo Sisgodedu. [Rebbe ibid]

[8] Birkeiy Yosef 117:8 Kesher Gudal 16:10; Shalmei Tzibur p. 129; Beis Oved 4; Chesed Lealafim 117:14; Kaf Hachaim 117:14; See however Piskeiy Teshuvos 117:3 and footnote 25 in name of Poskim that if he will be in an area without a Jewish community, then he may say like Eretz Yisrael.

[9] See Admur 117:1; Suggestion of Rebbe in Likkutei Sichos 19:464 [brought in Shulchan Menachem 1:77]; Dinim Vihanhagos of Chazon Ish 4:26; Orchos Rabbeinu 1:84; Sefer Eretz Yisrael of Rav Tukichinsky that so is Sefaradi custom; Ruling of Divrei Yoel; Divrei Yatziv 1:68; Mishneh Halachos 5:28; Cheshev Haeifod 3:7; Shevet Halevi 10:22; Kaneh Bosem 1:10; Rav SZ”A in Halichos Shlomo 8:19 and Yom Tov Sheiyni Kehilchaso 10 footnote 8; Piskeiy Teshuvos 117:3; See Ishei Yisrael 23:37; Hiskashrus 644 p. 18

[10] Birkeiy Yosef 117:8; Kaf Hachaim 117:12; Ketzos Hashulchan 21:10; Hiskashrus; See Kesher Gudal 16:14; Shalmei Tzibur p. 129; Beis Oved 5

[11] Rav SZ”A in Yom Tov Sheiyni Kehilchaso 10 footnote 8; Mishneh Halachos 11:80-81; Piskeiy Teshuvos 117:3

[12] In such a case, he is to recite it accoridng to all, either due to the first opinion, or the second opinion.

[13] Divrei Yatziv ibid; Minchas Yitzchak 10:9; Yechaveh Daas ibid; Piskeiy Teshuvos ibid [see there footnote 29 that some suggest Davening again as a Nedava]

[14] Birkeiy Yosef 117:5; Kesher Gudal 16:9; Shalmei Tzibur p. 129; Beis Oved 3; Chesed Lealafim 117:14; Shaareiy Teshuvah 117:4; Kaf Hachaim 117:13; Ketzos Hashulchan 21:10; Piskeiy Teshuvos 117:3

The reason: Once he has started he is not to stop, as it seems like a mockery. [Birkeiy Yosef ibid]

If one moves with his family to the Diaspora: If one moves with his family to the Diaspora between the 7^th of Marcheshvan and the 5^th of December, some write that he is to stop saying Visein Tal Umatar in such a case. [Yayin Tov 35; Beir Moshe 7:117; See Piskeiy Teshuvos ibid]

[15] Implication of Poskim ibid; Piskeiy Teshuvos ibid footnote 17

[16] Birkeiy Yosef 117:8; Kaf Hachaim 117:12; Ketzos Hashulchan 21:10; Hiskashrus; See Kesher Gudal 16:14; Shalmei Tzibur p. 129; Beis Oved 5

[17] Rav SZ”A in Yom Tov Sheiyni Kehilchaso 10 footnote 8; Mishneh Halachos 11:80-81; Piskeiy Teshuvos 117:3

[18] See M”B 117:5

[19] Peri Chadash 117:2 [brought in Beir Heiytiv and M”B ibid]; Maharikash in Erech Lechem 117  [even if does not plan to return during rain season, he does not mention a difference in the law if he does not plan to return until years later]; Halachos Ketanos 1:74 in name of Maharikash; Radaz 5:55 [that if plan to return during rain season, or if he has a wife and children in Israel, then is to say]; Shalmei Tizbur p. 128; P”M 117 M”Z 1 in name of Peri Chadash ibid; Gloss of Rav Akiva Eiger 117 [Hachadashos]; Shulchan Hatahor 117:3; Toras Chaim Sofer 117:3; Igros Moshe 2:102; Dvar Yehoshua 2:14; Mishneh Shlomo 1:7; Vayeishev Moshe 1:102

[20] Peri Chadash ibid; P”M ibid; See other Poskim ibid in previous footnote [Maharikash, Halachos Ketanos, Radbaz] who do not explicitly make this differentiation and simply state that he is to say like Eretz Yisrael

[21] Birkeiy Yosef 117:5 in name of Maharaz Guto and Mahari Malko 67 and many other Gedolim in negation of Radbaz and Peri Chadash ibid [however see M”B ibid who understands them differently]; Dvar Shmuel 323; Kesher Gudal 16:13; Shalmei Tzibur p. 129; Beis Oved 2; Beir Chaim 5 [of Rav Shmuel Vital]; Chesed Lealafim 117:14; Makor Chaim 117; Ketzos Hashulchan 21:10; Rebbe in Likkutei Sichos 19:464 [brought in Shulchan Menachem 1:77] brings like the opinion of Chida and that so rule majority of Achronim; Hiskashrus; Both opinions are brought in M”B 117:5 without a clear arbitration; See Birur Halacha 117:1; Rivivos Efraim 4:255

[22] The reason: As the request of rain is a personal need, and hence each person should request based on whether it is needed at that time in his current location. [Dvar Shmuel ibid; Birkeiy Yosef ibid]

[23] Divrei Yatziv 1:68; Betzeil Hachochma 1:62; Shevet Halevi 10:22; Kaneh Bosem 1:10; Birur Halacha 117; Piskeiy Teshuvos 117:3

[24] Divrei Yatziv ibid; Shraga Hameir 7:148; Minchas Yitzchak 10:9; Piskeiy Teshuvos ibid; Some Poskim rule that in such a case he is to recite it in Shomeia Tefila while in the Diaspora. [Yechaveh Daas 1:73; ]; Other Poskim rule that if he plans to return to the Diaspora before the 5th of December, he is to recite it in Shomeia Tefila even while in Eretz Yisrael [Beir Moshe 7:117; Teshuvos Vehanhagos 2:55; Rav SZ”A in Halichos Shlomo 8:19; Mishneh Shlomo 1:7 in name of Tzchebiner Rav that if they plan to return before Pesach, they should ask like Diaspora; Vayeishev Moshe 1:102]

[25] Divrei Yatziv ibid; Minchas Yitzchak 10:9; Yechaveh Daas ibid; Piskeiy Teshuvos ibid [see there footnote 29 that some suggest Davening again as a Nedava]

[26] Divrei Yatziv ibid; Shraga Hameir 7:148; Minchas Yitzchak 10:9; Piskeiy Teshuvos ibid

[27] Beir Moshe 7:117; Teshuvos Vehanhagos 2:55