How many people are needed to answer for Chazaras Hashatz?[1]

A. Introduction:

A Davar Shebekedusha, which includes the saying of Kaddish, Kedusha, Barchu, requires a Minyan of ten adult men in the room for it to be allowed to be said.[2] In addition to the requirement of having a minyan, one is also required to have at least nine people paying attention to the Chazan who is saying the Kaddish, Kedusha or Barchu.[3] In addition to having at least nine people paying attention, one must also have a certain amount of people within the Minyan who answer to the Kaddish, Kedusha, Barchu. In this regard, there is a difference between Kaddish, Kedusha, Barchu versus Chazaras Hashatz. By the former, it suffices to have six people in total involved in the answering [which is five people answering to the Chazan, for a total of six[4]] and hence if four people are still in the middle of Shemonah Esrei, Kaddish, Kedusha, and Barchu may still be recited.[5] However, by Chazaras Hashatz we require that there not only be nine people paying attention to the Chazan but that there also be nine people actually answering Amen to the blessings of the Chazan. It is this law that we will discuss below.

 

B. The law:[6]

A congregation does not fulfill the obligation of Chazaras Hashatz unless there are nine people listening (to the entire blessing from beginning to end[7]) and answering Amen[8] to the blessings of the Chazan.[9] If there aren’t nine people listening and answering Amen to his blessings, then his blessings may be considered[10] to be said in vain [unless someone in the Minyan has yet to hear Kedusha and nine people are listening but only five can answer[11], or he is praying for the first time and did not previously pray silently to himself[12], as will be explained below].[13] [Accordingly, a Minyan must wait until there are nine people who can listen and answer Amen prior to beginning Chazaras Hashatz. At the very least, there must be nine people who are able to listen and answer at the beginning of the Chazarah[14], however, initially it is required for there to be nine people who can listen and answer throughout the entire prayer.[15] If there are not nine people available who can listen and answer Amen, such as if some of the people are still in middle of Shemoneh Esrei, or are in middle of Birchas Shema/Shema[16], then they do not join as part of the required nine, and one must wait for them to finish Shemoneh Esrei or have someone else who can answer to join the Minyan.[17] In the event that there are nine people who are technically available to listen and answer but one is worried that they may not do so, then the Chazan is to have in mind that his prayer will be a Tefilas Nedava, if there are not nine people listening and answering.[18] This, however, does not work for the repetition of Shabbos, Yom Tov, and Musaf Shemoneh Esrei, in which case a Nedava cannot be prayed.[19]]

C. Special scenarios

If a person begins Shemoneh Esrei together with the Chazan by Chazaras Hashatz, can he be considered as one of the nine answers, and therefore only eight answers are required?

Some Poskim[20] rule that a person who begins Shemoneh Esrei together with the Chazan by Chazaras Hashatz, is considered as one of the nine answers, and therefore only eight answers are required.[21] Other Poskim[22], however, negate this and rule that one requires nine actual answers, and so is the implied opinion of Admur.[23]

 

What to do if the 10th man is up to Shemoneh Esrei:[24]

In the event that the 10th man is up to Shemoneh Esrei [or is by Birchas Shema and the Minyan is willing to wait until he reaches Shemoneh Esrei], and there are nine others who are able to answer [including the Chazan, i.e. 8 plus the Chazan] then instead of waiting for him to finish his personal Shemoneh Esrei so he can answer, he can begin his Shemoneh Esrei out loud and in essence become the Chazan for Chazaras Hashatz and save the Minyan time. [In such a case, he is to remember to recite Elokaiy Netzor at the end of his Shemoneh Esrei[25] and then take three steps back.[26]] However, one may not rely on those who are lenient to consider one who begins Shemoneh Esrei together with the Chazzan, as one needs nine people actually answering Amen.[27]

What to do if two people are up to Shemoneh Esrei:

In the event that two people out of the ten are unable to answer, such as that they are in Birchas Shema or in middle of Shemoneh Esrei, then the Minyan may not begin Chazaras Hashatz until they finish Shemoneh Esrei and can answer [or one finishes Shemoneh Esrei, and the second who was more behind and is now up to Shemoneh Esrei, becomes the Chazan, as stated above]. One may not rely on those who are lenient to consider one who begins Shemoneh Esrei together with the Chazzan as one of the nine answers, and hence it does not help for one of the two to become the Chazan for Chazaras Hashatz and have the second individual begin together with him, as one needs nine people actually answering Amen to perform Chazaras Haashatz, as explained above.[28]

What to do with the Minyan cannot wait for nine answers-Saying Shemoneh Esrei out loud for the sake of Kedusha:[29]

If people in the Minyan are in a rush and not able to wait for the 10th man to reach or finish Shemoneh Esrei so he can be able to answer [such as if two[30] or more of the ten are in the midst of Birchas Shema, or the person Davens a very long Shemoneh Esrei of 10 to 20 minutes], then the Minyan can nevertheless choose to say Shemoneh Esrei aloud for the sake of Kedusha.[31] Doing this type of repetition carries various regulations, as it is not Halachically considered as Chazaras Hashatz, being that one does not have nine answers.[32]

Doing a repetition for the sake of Kedusha carries the following regulations:

1. Under what condition?[33] There must be at least one person in the Minyan who did not yet hear Kedusha.[34] Initially, however, it is preferable for there to be six people who did not hear Kedusha [which is anyways usually the case in the above scenario of a minyan which got stuck without nine answers].[35]
2. How many listeners and answerers: There are at least nine people who will be listening to the Kedusha of the Chazan, and at least five people who will be answering to it.[36]
3. Who?[37] The person who is still the middle of Birchas Shema is to be the one to repeat the Shemoneh Esrei for the sake of Kedusha. Thus, the Minyan is to wait for the first of those who are in middle of Birchas Shema to reach Shemoneh Esrei, and then have him recite his Shemoneh Esrei out loud for the sake of Kedusha until after the blessing of Hakeil Hakadosh.
4. Until where to say aloud: The repetition may only be said for the sake of Kedusha and does not have the status of Chazaras Hashatz, as explained above. Therefore, it may only be said out loud up until the end of the blessing of Hakeil Hakadosh.[38] From there and onwards the Chazan is to say it quietly [and thus certainly he does not recite Birchas Kohanim]. This applies, even if he has already Davened to himself and is simply repeating Shemoneh Esrei for the sake of the Kedusha[39], and certainly applies if he has not yet Davened Shemoneh Esrei, and was chosen to become the Chazan because he was up to Shemoneh Esrei.[40]
5. The order to be followed after the Kedusha:[41] After the completion of Kedusha and Hakeil Hakadosh, the Minyan may continue with the remainder of the prayer [i.e. Tachanun, Kerias Hatorah, Ashrei Uva Letziyon, Shir Shel Yom, Ein Kelokeinu, Aleinu] and some Poskim[42] rule that may even recite all of the Kaddeishim. However, the stanza of Tiskabel is to be omitted from the Kaddish Shaleim that follows Uva Letziyon.[43]

Question: [Monday, 5^th Shevat 5781]

Does a person who is in middle of Shemoneh Esrei count as one of the nine answers towards Chazaras Hashatz, and does it make any difference if he begins Shemoneh Esrei exactly with the Chazan. In essence, what is one to do if there are only eight people who can answer, and one person is up to Shemoneh Esrei. Does it help for him to begin with the Chazan to count as one of the nine or must we wait until he finishes Shemoneh Esrei.

Answer:

In such a case, the person who is up to Shemoneh Esrei and cannot answer is to go up and be Chazan for Chazaras Hashatz, hence gaining the original Chazan as the ninth answer. The other alternative is to wait for him to finish his own Shemoneh Esrei, and then have the Chazan begin Chazaras Hashatz. In my opinion, according to the rulings of the Alter Rebbe one may not rely on those who are lenient to consider one who begins Shemoneh Esrei together with the Chazzan, as one needs nine people actually answering.

Explanation: There is a dispute amongst the Poskim as to whether one requires six or nine answers to for the Shemoneh Esrei to have the status of Chazaras Hashatz [as opposed to mere Kedusha recital]. Now, the Alter Rebbe rules clearly that nine answers are required by Chazaras Hashatz [as opposed to mere Kaddish and Kedusha recital in which everyone agrees that only six are required]. Hence, while other sects of Jewry are accustomed to be lenient to begin Chazaras Hashatz as soon as there are six answers, in Chabad Minyanim we may not rely on this and must wait until there are actually nine answers available [unless it is a time of great need for the congregation, and they would choose to lose Chazaras Hashatz, and simply repeat the Shemoneh Esrei aloud for the sake of the Kedusha, in which case the ruling would be that someone who has not yet Davened Shemoneh Esrei is to be the one who goes to the Amud, and he only says until Hakeil Hakadosh out loud]. Now, one who is in middle of Shemoneh Esrei obviously does not count as one of the nine answers as he cannot answer Amen to the blessings and is not required to pay attention to the Chazaras Hashatz, and hence not only is there not nine answers but there isn’t even nine people concentrating on the repetition, and hence certainly he is invalid to join. However, some Poskim suggest that an exception to this would be somebody who starts Shemoneh Esrei together with the Chazan, as since he reads word for word together with the Chazzan therefore he is considered just like the Chazzan himself, and just as the Chazzan joins as one of the 10 even though he is not an answer, so does this individual, as he too is exempt from answering Amen being that he too is considered a Chazzan who does not answer Amen to his own blessings. Practically, however, while there is room to analyze the merits of this argument, it seems from the clear words of Admur that nothing else but nine physical answers who verbalize the word amen are valid, and having more than one person count as a Chazzan does not make it count as two out of the 10. Vetzaruch Iyun.

Sources: Poskim who rule that one must have 9 answerers of Amen: Admur 55:11 that to do Chazaras Hashatz one requires nine listeners and answers of Amen; Admur 56:4 that one needs 9 listening to the Chazan; Admur 594:1 that without nine people answering Amen it is not considered a community prayer and does not have the status of Chazaras Hashatz; Poskim who rule that 6 answerers suffice even for Chazaras Hashatz: Maharil, brought in M”A 55:8 and M”Z 55:19; Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:11; 124:9; Poskim who rule that one who starts Shemoneh Esrei with the Chazan counts as one of the nine answerers: Bris Kehuna [Kalfon] Mareches Ches 11; Rav SZ”A in Halichos Shlomo 2; Yimei Yosef O.C. 4; Sefer Halacha Berurah [Yosef] 90:28 and Biurim 19 that so also ruled Harav Ovadia Yosef; Piskeiy Teshuvos 124:9; Poskim who argue on the above notion: Bris Kehuna [Kalfon] Mareches Ches 11 in name of Harav Matzliach Mazuz; See Mishkanos Yaakov O.C. 73; Shraga Hameir 7:2; The ruling of Admur on the above: See Admur ibid who constantly writes 9 listeners and answerers of Amen to one person saying it, which negates the above novelty. See also Admur 109:3 that the person who says word for word with the Chazan is considered like an actual Chazzan and that the congregation is answering also to his Shemoneh Esrei, hence implying that an additional nine answerers would be needed. Vetzaruch Iyun as according to this ruling we should also require that there be none people listening to the Kaddish of one sayer, and hence if two people are saying Kaddish simultaneously, one does not count.

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[1] See Admur 55:7, 11; 56:4; 59:1, 4; 69:5; 124:1 and 6; 594:1; Michaber 55:6 and 124:4; Kaf Hachaim 55:48 and 53; 124:17 and 20; M”A 55:8; Taz 55:4; M”B 124:19; Ketzos Hashulchan 15:2, 22:1; Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:11; 124:9; Yalkut Yosef and Halacha Berura on 55:6 and 124:3

[2] Admur 55:2; Michaber 55:1; Rambam Tefila 8:4; Mishneh Megillah 23b

[3] Admur 56:4; 69:4; “He can say Kaddish and Barchu if there are nine people listening”; 125:1; Beis Yosef 125; Rosh Kelal 4:19; Taz 124:2; Kitzur SHU”A 15:7; 20:2; See Tehila Ledavid 55:6; Regarding the requirement for nine listeners by Chazaras Hashatz and when being Yotzei from Chazan, see all sources in coming footnotes

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that we do not even require nine listeners, and that so is the custom to allow him even a person who is talking to join the Minyan. [M”A 55:8 in name of Shut Maharil 150; Taz 55:4 in name of Beis Yosef 55 in name of Iggur;  Elya Raba Zuta 55:3; Derech Hachaim; Daas Torah 55:7; Toras Chaim Sofer 55:12; Mikveh Yisrael p. 71; Mahariy Asad 1:26 that so is the custom and Minhag Doche Halacha; M”B 124:19 records this opinion; See M”B 55:32 and 38 and Shaar Hatziyon 55:36 and Biur Halacha 55:6 “Oa”; Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:11 and 124:9 then a time of great need one may be lenient; See Taz ibid who completely negates this opinion of the Maharil saying that we do not bring proofs from the idiots transgressed the law; See Kaf Hachaim 55:48, 53 and 124:17 and 20 who implies like this opinion regarding Davar Shebekidusha] However, eight listeners are required. [M”A ibid in negation of Ralbach 15 that one always requires 8 people paying attention and answering Amen to Chazan]

Regarding one who is sleeping: See Admur 55:8; Michaber 55:6; Tehila Ledavid 55:6

[4] Pashut! See also Admur 69:4 “six, which is five and the Chazan”; Piskeiy Teshuvos 55 footnote 87

[5] Admur 55:7 and in parentheses; Michaber 55:6; Hagahos Maimanis 8 Tes; Mahram 529; M”A 55:8 in name of Shut Ralbach 15; Kneses Hagedola 55; Elya Raba 55:7; Olas Tamid 55:4; Derech Hachaim; Kitzur SHU”A 15:7; Ben Ish Chaiy Vayechi 5; Aruch Hashulchan 55:13; M”B 55:32; Ketzos Hashulchan 15:2; Kinyan Torah 7:9; Or Letziyon 2:5-6; Halichos Olam on Ben Ish Chaiy ibid; Tzitz Eliezer 12:9; Mishnas Yosef 5:17; Mishneh Halachos 4:9; See Kaf Hachaim 55:48; Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:11

Contradiction in Admur: See Admur 69:4; “He can say Kaddish and Barchu if there are nine people who will listen and answer after him” which implies that even by Kaddish and Barchu one requires nine answers, as rules the Taz 55:4. Vetzaruch Iyun Gadol!

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that we require at least eight listeners who pay attention and answer Amen to the Chazan, and hence only one person may still be in middle of Shemoneh Esrei. [M”A 55:8 in negation of Ralbach; Beir Heiytiv 55:9; Yad Aaron 55; Machazik Bracha 55:3; Shalemi Tzibur p. 79; Siddur Beis Oveid Dinei Hakadish 27; Chesed Lealafim 55:3; Chayeh Adam 29:1; Opinion in M”B 55:32; Kaf Hachaim 55:48 conclude that one should initially be stringent although in a time of need may be lenient; See Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:11 footnote 89] Other Poskim rule that initially we always require nine answers. [Admur 69:4; Perisha 124 in Derisha 1; Implication of Taz 55:4 and other Achronim] Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:11 footnote 92 concludes to initially always wait for nine answers, and only the time of need to be lenient with less, to suspect for opinion of Taz ibid, and ruling of Michaber 55:7

[6] Admur 55:7 in parentheses “So long as there are majority of the Minyan [i.e. 6 including Chazan] answering Amen….then one may recite a Davar Shebekedusha (Such as Kaddish, and Barchu, or even Kedusha if the Chazan has not yet Davened Shemoneh Esrei quietly to himself. However, when the Chazan repeats Shemoneh Esrei a second time, one must be careful that there are nine people listening and answering Amen after his blessings in order so they not be blessings in vain, as explained in chapter 124:6”; Admur 55:11 regarding the allowance for a deaf or mute joining a minyan that “However, if the Chazan has already Davened Shemoneh Esrei quietly to himself then he is not to repeat Shemoneh Esrei a second time, unless there are nine people listening and answering Amen as explained in chapter 124:6”; Admur 59:4  [regarding Birchas Shema]“A Chazan can only be Motzi others if there are nine listening and answering Amen however when there aren’t nine listening then he is considered like a single individual”; Admur 69:5 “if there are six people who Davened Shemoneh Esrei together then one of them may repeat the prayer out loud if there are nine who will listen and answer Amen”; Admur 124:1 “one who does not know to Daven does not fulfill his obligation with hearing the Chazan unless there is a congregation which is nine people hearing and listening to the blessings of the Chazan and answering Amen afterwards”; Admur 124:6 “if there aren’t nine people listening to his blessings, it is close to being a blessing in vain… And appears like a blessing in vain”; Admur 594:1 “if there aren’t nine people answering Amen after his blessings no one can fulfill their obligation with his prayer”; Divrei Nechemia 66a; Ketzos Hashulchan 22:1; Likkutei Sichos 39:280, printed in Shulchan Menachem 1:22, “regarding joining for a minyan, my custom is as written in Admur 55:7, as even though it is in parentheses, this seems to be his opinion, and so is ruled in the Kitzur SHU”A”; Shulchan Hamelech 2:198; Yagdil Torah Jerusalem 4:1757; Michaber 124:4 “if there aren’t nine people listening to his blessings, it is close to being a blessing in vain”; Tur 124 in name of Rosh; Taz 55:4; P”M 55 M”Z 4; Ashel Avraham Butchach 55; Kitzur SHU”A 15:7 [regarding needing 9 listeners by Davar Shebekedusha, but not 9 answers]; 20:2 “By Chazaras Hashatz, since he already prayed privately and is only repeating the prayer for those who already prayed, therefore there must be nine people listening and answering in order so his blessings not be in vain, unlike what we ruled earlier in 15:7.”; Ben Ish Chaiy Vayechi 5-6; Kaf Hachaim 55:48; 124:17 and 20 that we require nine people listening as rules Michaber ibid, and hence if one is sleeping he does not join, Vien Leshanos, and that initially all 9 must be able to answer; Rav SZ”A in Ishei Yisrael 15 footnote 11

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that although we require there to be nine listeners to the prayer of the Chazan, we do not require nine people answering Amen, [and rather having five people answer suffices]. [Implication of Admur 124:6 and Michaber 124:4 who omit need to answer Amen; See Kaf Hachaim 55:48, 53 and 124:17 and 20 that when not possible otherwise, one may be lenient even if one person cannot answer, although all nine are paying attention;]; Other Poskim rule that we do not even require nine listeners, and that so is the custom to allow him even a person who is talking to join the Minyan. [M”A 55:8 in name of Shut Maharil 150; Elya Raba Zuta 55:3; Derech Hachaim; Daas Torah 55:7; Toras Chaim Sofer 55:12; Mikveh Yisrael p. 71; Mahariy Asad 1:26 that so is the custom and Minhag Doche Halacha; M”B 124:19 records this opinion and concludes that those who do so should have the Chazan follow the advice of the Shulchan Shlomo 124:3 and have in mind that his prayer will be a Tefilas Nedava if there are nine people listening and answering; See M”B 55:32 and 38 and Shaar Hatziyon 55:36 and Biur Halacha 55:6 “Oa”; Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:11 and 124:9 then a time of great need one may be lenient; See Taz ibid who completely negates this opinion of the Maharil saying that we do not bring proofs from the idiots transgressed the law; See Kaf Hachaim 55:48 and 124:20 who completely negates this opinion from Halacha] However, some Poskim rule that even according to this approach, we require at least eight listeners who pay attention and answer Amen to the Chazan, and hence only one person may still be in Shemoneh Esrei. [M”A 55:8 in negation of Ralbach; Yad Aaron 55; Machazik Bracha 55:3; Shalemi Tzibur p. 79; Siddur Beis Oveid Dinei Hakadish 27; Chesed Lealafim 55:3] Igros Moshe 4:19 rules that if even six people are not paying attention it is a blessing in vain according to all

[7] Admur 124:6 in parentheses that the nine listeners must also listen to the beginning of the blessing, and listening to only the end of the blessing for the sake of the Amen does not suffice ”as the sages instituted that at least nine people listen also to the beginning of the blessings in order to fulfill the obligation of one who does not know to Daven, and this institution applies likewise today even though everyone prays on their own”

[8] The following sources record that not only listening, but also answering Amen is required: Admur 55:7 in parentheses; 55:11; 59:4 [in first part, if there are nine who will listen and answer Amen]; 69:5; 124:1 [regarding being Yotzei with Chazan]; 594:1 [regarding being Yotzei with Chazan]; Ketzos Hashulchan 22:1; Kitzur SHU”A 20:2; Ben Ish Chaiy Vayechi 6; Kaf Hachaim 55:53 and 124:17 that initially one should be stringent to require 9 answers

Apparent contradictions in Admur: Admur 124:6 omits writing that the nine listeners must also answer Amen [even though he constantly references to this chapter in 55:7 and 11] and only writes that they are required to be listening; Admur 213:4 rules that Answering Amen to a blessing is not necessary in order to fulfill one’s obligation; See Hisvadyus 5743 1:67 that the Rebbe questions this discrepancy although does not answer it; See Shulchan Hamelech 2:198; Practically, the Rebbe’s final ruling is that Amen is also required, as he answers in Likkutei Sichos 39:280, printed in Shulchan Menachem 1:22, and so rules the Ketzos Hashulchan ibid

Opinions who hold that answering Amen is not required by all nine: Some Poskim rule that although we require there to be nine listeners to the prayer of the Chazan, we do not require nine people answering Amen, [and rather having five people answer suffices]. [Implication of Admur 124:6 and Michaber 124:4 who omit need to answer Amen; P”M 124 M”Z 2; Peri Chadash 55:8; M”A 55:8 in name of Maharil that even 9 listeners is not required; See Kaf Hachaim 55:48, 53 and 124:17 that when not possible otherwise, one may be lenient even if one person cannot answer]

[9] The reason: As Chazaras Hashatz was instituted to be said with 10 people and when there are not nine people listening to the Chazan’s blessings, then it appears like a blessing in vain. [Admur 124:6; Levush 124:1; Kaf Hachaim 124:17] The reason for this is because the entire reason for why the sages instituted Chazaras Hashatz is in order to fulfill the obligation of one who does not know to Daven on his own, and one cannot fulfill the obligation of another unless there are nine people listening to the blessings of the Chazan [Admur 124:1 and 6 in parentheses; 594:1; See Rabbeinu Yona Brachos 13b; Beis Yosef 69; Levush 6:4; Rama 59:4; M”A 59:5] Accordingly, if there are not nine people answering Amen, then his prayer is not called a prayer of the congregation, and one can not fulfill his obligation of praying unless he hears the prayer from the congregation, as this was the original institution when they instituted praying with a minyan, that the Chazan repeat the prayer out loud in order to fulfill the obligation of one who does not know to pray, and if he does not pray a prayer of the congregation then he cannot fulfill the obligation of others in his prayer, as prayer is not like other blessings that one can simply fulfill his obligation through listening and answering Amen, as ideally everyone is to pray on their own and beseech for their own divine mercy, and it is not proper to ask for mercy through a messenger unless he is a messenger of the public. [Admur 594:1 and 59:4]

[10] Is it truly a blessing in vain? In one area, Admur plainly writes that it is considered a blessing in vain. [Admur 55:7, and also in 124:6 in the parentheses]; In another area, Admur writes a less definitive approach that is considered a worry of a possible blessing in vain. [Admur 594:1]; In another area, Admur writes that it merely appears like a blessing in vain, but is not really a blessing in vain. [Admur 124:6 in the beginning of the Halacha, unlike what he writes in parentheses; Michaber 124:4] [See coming footnotes for the quoted rulings. To note, that this is even in the case that the nine people are listening, if however, nine people are listening and simply not answering Amen, then it is subject to debate explained above and the different rulings of Admur.] Now, in explanation of this wording of Admur and Michaber ibid that it is only close to being a blessing in vain, the Derisha 124:1 explains that the reason for this is because we rule in chapter 55 that so long as one starts with nine people listening, then the Chazan may continue even if he loses part of his Minyan. Accordingly, if even in the beginning there were not nine people listening, and is for certain a blessing in vain. See also Pischeiy Teshuvah 124; Igros Moshe 4:19 that if even six people are not paying attention it is a blessing in vain according to all; See Piskeiy Teshuvos 124 footnote 86 for an alternative explanation in Admur; Vetzaruch Iyun as to why the most basic explanation was omitted, which is that it is permitted to repeat Shemoneh Esrei for the sake of meriting to hear Kedusha, and for Kedusha you only need six people answering. [See Michaber 69:1; See Hisorerus Teshuvah 1:54 who in truth uses this argument to be Milameid Zechus on those who are not careful in this.] However, seemingly the reason this was omitted is because we conclude that even for Kedusha you need to have nine people listening even if not all nine can answer, and the above allowance to repeat for the sake of Kedusha would only apply if at least nine people will listen.

[11] See Admur 69:4-6; Hisorerus Teshuvah 1:54 who uses this allowance of repeating Shemoneh Esrei for the sake of Kedusha to be Milameid Zechus on those who are not careful to wait for nine answers

[12] Admur 55:7; 11; 69:5; 594:1; See Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:11 footnote 90

[13] Admur 55:7 in parentheses “in order so they not be blessings in vain”; Admur 124:6 in beginning “if there aren’t nine people listening to his blessings, it is close to being a blessing in vain…. then it appears like a blessing in vain.”; Admur 124:6 in parentheses “as if there are not nine people listening to the beginning of the blessings then the Chazan is saying the beginning of the blessings in vain”; Admur 594:1 “A worry of a blessing in vain”; Michaber 124:3

[14] See Derisha 124:1; Admur 55:4; Michaber 55:3; Kaf Hachaim 124:20; Piskeiy Teshuvos 124:9

[15] Implication of Derisha and Kaf Hachaim ibid; Setimas Admur ibid

[16] See Admur 66:5

[17] Kitzur SHU”A 20:2 “Thus, when there is an exact minyan, one needs to make sure that the Chazan does not begin the repetition until everyone finishes their prayer so they can answer”

[18] M”B 124:19, in name of Shulchan Shlomo 124:3; See Shulchan Hatahor 124:11; Orach Neman 124:13; Yeshuos Moshe 3:57; Piskeiy Teshuvos 124:9

Other opinions: Some Poskim question and negate the above advice. [See Shulchan Hatahor 124:11; Orach Neman 124:13; Yeshuos Moshe 3:57; Rav SZ”A in Halichos Shlomo 9 footnote 13; Piskeiy Teshuvos 124:9 footnotes 90-91]

[19] Piskeiy Teshuvos 124:9

[20] Bris Kehuna [Kalfon] Mareches Ches 11; Rav SZ”A in Halichos Shlomo 9:2; Mioreir Yisheinim 55:27; Mikveh Yisrael p. 71; Yimei Yosef O.C. 4; Sefer Halacha Berurah [Yosef] 90:28 and Biurim 19 that so also ruled Harav Ovadia Yosef; Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:11 and 124:9

[21] The reason: Some Poskim suggest that Somebody who starts Shemoneh Esrei together with the Chazan, as since he reads word for word together with the Chazzan therefore he is considered just like the Chazzan himself, and just as the Chazzan joins as one of the 10 even though he is not an answer, so does this individual, as he too is exempt from answering Amen being that he too is considered a Chazzan who does not answer Amen to his own blessings.

[22] Bris Kehuna [Kalfon] Mareches Ches 11 in name of Harav Matzliach Mazuz; See Mishkanos Yaakov O.C. 73; Shraga Hameir 7:2

[23] The ruling of Admur on the above question: It seems from the clear words of Admur that nothing else but nine physical answers who verbalize the word amen are valid, and having more than one person count as a Chazzan does not make it count as two out of the 10. See Admur in sources ibid who constantly writes that one needs to have 9 listeners and answerers of Amen to the Chazan, which negates the above novelty. See also Admur 109:3 that the person who says word for word with the Chazan is considered like an actual Chazzan and that the congregation is answering also to his Shemoneh Esrei, hence implying that an additional nine answerers would be needed. Vetzaruch Iyun as according to this ruling we should also require that there be nine/five people listening to the Kaddish of one sayer, and hence if two people are saying Kaddish simultaneously, one does not count.

[24] See Admur 124:3; 123:7; Michaber 124:2; M”A 124:3; Kol Bo 27

[25] Ketzos Hashulchan 22:1

[26] Admur 123:7; Rama 123:5; Ketzos Hashulchan 22:1

[27] See Q&A!

[28] See Q&A regarding if a person who prays together with the Chazan can be considered one of the nine answerers, and that we concluded according to Admur that he cannot. Certainly, it is invalid to have the first individual who reaches Shemoneh Esrei to then go ahead and recite it out loud for his own personal Shemoneh Esrei and also for the sake of Chazaras Hashatz, if there still isn’t nine answers. The reason for this is, as although the blessings would not be considered to be said in vain in such a case being that he’s repeating the prayer for his own obligation [See Admur 55:7; 11; 69:5; 594:1; Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:11 footnote 90], nonetheless, this would not be considered Chazaras Hashatz, but rather simply a repetition for the sake of Kedusha, and hence would have to follow all of the guidelines brought below regarding repeating Shemoneh Esrei for the sake of the Kedusha, which includes only saying aloud until after Hakeil Hakadosh.

[29] See Admur 69:1, 4-5; Piskeiy Teshuvos 69:1; Hisorerus Teshuvah 1:54 who uses this allowance of repeating Shemoneh Esrei for the sake of Kedusha to be Milameid Zechus on those who are not careful to wait for nine answers

The option of continuing with the rest of Davening and making up Chazaras Hashatz later on: Vetzaruch Iyun if instead of the above advice, one can or should advise in such a case for the Minyan to skip Chazaras Hashatz and continue with Tachanun, Kerias Hatorah, Ashrei Uva Letziyon, Aleinu, etc etc, and by then hopefully have nine answerers, and then perform Chazaras Hashatz. While this order seems very strange, it possibly is the best order according to Halacha, as it is the only order that fulfills the obligation of Chazras Hashatz. If one follows this advice, then all the Kaddeishim may be recited so long as there are nine people listening and five answering, although the stanza of Tiskabel is to be omitted from the Kaddish of after Uva Letziyon.

[30] However, if only one person is in the middle of Shema, then as stated earlier, he should simply become the Chazan and perform Chazaras Hashatz when he reaches Shemoneh Esrei, and have nine people answer to his blessings.

[31] Admur 55:7 in parentheses; 55:11; 69:4; Michaber 69:1; Tehila Ledavid 69:2; Ashel Avraham Butchach 69; Imrei Yosher 2:9; Afrasakta Deanya 2:16; Minchas Yitzchak 1:57 and 10:107

Other opinions: Some Poskim question if according to the Radbaz 4:241, brought in M”A 69:4, one may recite the repetition for the sake of the Kedusha in such a case. [Biur Halacha 69:1 “Omer”]

[32] See Admur 69:5 in parentheses

[33] See Admur 69:1 and 4; Michaber 69:1

[34] 2^nd opinion in Admur 69:4; Rashi in Tosafus Megillah 23b; Rosh Megillah 3:7

[35] 1^st opinion in Admur 69:4; Rambam Tefila 8:4; Rabbeinu Tam in Hagahos Maimanis

[36] As explained in A, see there!

[37] Admur 55:7 in parentheses; 55:11; 69:4 and 5; M”A 69:4; See Admur 69:1 and 4 and 5 [and M”B 69:17] that even one who already Davened is valid to repeat the Shemoneh Esrei for the sake of the Kedusha, nonetheless, he is not initially to do so if there is someone who has not yet Davened present.

[38] Admur 69:5 in parentheses; 124:3; Piskeiy Teshuvos 69 footnote 17

The reason: As it is forbidden for one to raise his voice during his prayer. [Admur 69:5; 101:2]

[39] See Admur 69:1 that once he says Hakeil Hakadosh, the remaining individuals may leave, and he is to then finish the rest of Shemoneh Esrei to himself, as although its entire purpose was for the sake of Kedusha, which was already fulfilled, one cannot recite only half of Shemonah Esrei. Upashut that he cannot say it out loud being that it does not have the status of Chazaras Hashatz and only by a Halachcilly valid Chazaras Hashatz do we allow an out loud repetition, as Admur emphasizes in 69:5 in parentheses! Piskeiy Teshuvos 69 footnote 17 that possibly he may not say past Hakeil Hakadosh out loud

[40] Admur 69:5 in parentheses; 124:3

[41] See Admur 55:1; 123:7; Shut Maharsham 4:123; Noda Beyehuda Tinyana 7; Chochmas Shlomo 55; Levushei Mordechaiy 1:11; Mishneh Halachaos 6:17; Piskeiy Teshuvos 69 footnote 19

[42] Chochmas Shlomo 55; Levushei Mordechaiy 1:11; Mishneh Halachaos 6:17; Piskeiy Teshuvos 69 footnote 19

The reason: As it is no different than saying any Kaddish after learning. [Mishneh Halachos ibid] To note however that there are Poskim [Aruch Hashulchan 55:9]

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that it may not be said. [Shut Mahrsham 4:123; Levushei Mordechaiy 11 although he is lenient bedieved, and so is implied in Noda Beyehuda Tinyana 7 that when there was no Chazaras Hashatz the Kaddish may never be said. However, to note that there the Noda Beyehuda is referring to a case that there was no longer a Minyan for even the start of Chazaras Hashatz, while here we are discussing that there was a Minyan for Kedusha, although 6 did not daven together.]

Opinion of Admur: In 55:1 Admur mentions that these Kadesihim are only obligatory when being said after praying with a Minyan. Furthermore, in 69:4 he does not make mention of the recital of these Kadeshim by the lone davener. This may be due to that which he rules in 123:6 that this Kadish of Tiskabel was only instituted by the Tefila of the Shliach Tzibur.

[43] Chochmas Shlomo 55; Levushei Mordechaiy 1:11; Mishneh Halachaos 6:17; Piskeiy Teshuvos 69 footnote 19

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