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Chapter 95

Used a dairy pot for meat or vice versa-Part 3

Introduction: This chapter, in continuation of the theme of Taaruvos discussed in previous chapters, focuses on the status of Pareve foods that have been cooked in a meat or dairy utensil, and whether these foods still remain Pareve and may be eaten with the opposite food. In modern terminology, such foods are often called “Chezkat Besari” or “Chezkat Chalavi,” a term which is not found in Poskim and has led to much confusion and misunderstanding of the status of Pareve foods that are cooked with meat or dairy utensils. As we will see, according to Halacha, there are cases in which the Pareve food remains Pareve and may be eaten with whatever food one desires, and cases in which we treat the food as the vessel in which it was cooked. A second subject explored in this chapter is the laws of Taaruvos of meat and milk caused through vessels that have made contact with each other through a hot liquid, such as if one washed meat and dairy vessels together in hot water while doing dishes. What is the Kashrus status of such vessels if this occurred? A third subject discussed is restriction applicable to salt being near meat or milk, and meat or milk being stored near each other.

1. The status of Pareve foods cooked in a meat pot or vice versa:

If a Pareve food was cooked in a meat or dairy pot [or was cut with a meat or dairy knife while the Pareve food was hot[1]] then the law regarding whether the food remains Pareve, and one may eat the Pareve food with the opposite type of food that the pot [or knife] belonged to, is dependent on the following factors:

1. Was the Pareve food a Davar Charif or does it contain a Davar Charif?
2. Was the pot [or knife] clean from residue of meat/milk?
3. Is the pot [or knife] Ben Yomo?

*Important note: This Halacha is only discussing whether one may remove the Pareve food from the pot and then eat it with dairy or meat. According to all, one may never enter dairy or meat into a Pareve food that is currently cooking in an opposite type of pot, as explained in chapter 93 regarding the prohibition of cooking meat in a dairy pot and vice versa.

 

A. Pareve food is Charif:[2]

If a Pareve Charif/sharp food was cooked in a meat pot then even if the pot was clean and not Ben Yomo, the food becomes meaty and is forbidden to be eaten with milk.[3] Bedieved, if one cooked this sharp food with dairy, one requires 60x in the dairy food versus the sharp food in order for the dish to be Kosher. [Furthermore, if one poured this food while hot into a dairy pot, the dairy pot becomes forbidden.[4]]

A dish which contains sharp foods within its ingredients:^[5] A food mixture which contains Charif ingredients is viewed in accordance to the majority ingredient of the mixture to determine its Charif status. If the majority of the food is not made up of sharp ingredients, then it is not considered sharp. [However, regarding sharp spices, so long as the spicy taste is felt within the dish it is considered spicy even if it is the minority of the food.[6] If, however, honey was added to the food, then it nullifies the sharpness of the sharp foods, and the mixture is no longer considered sharp.[7] If a Davar Charif was first cooked alone in the pot and only afterword’s one added the other ingredients, it has the status of a Davar Charif even if the other ingredients are majority.[8]]

Cooked non-Sharp food in pot that had Charif cooked in it:[9] If a meat pot had Charif cooked in it, it is nevertheless considered not Ben Yomo after 24 hours from its original meat use, and hence if Pareve food was cooked in it, it follows the laws explained in Halacha B-C.

Summary: If a Pareve Charif/sharp food was cooked in a meat pot the food becomes meaty and is forbidden to be eaten with milk, and if one did so the milk requires 60x.   Q&A What is the law if one cooked a sharp food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot and used a dairy vessel to mix it?[10] If the dairy vessel is Ben Yomo everything is forbidden unless there is 60x in the food versus the vessel, in which case only the vessel is forbidden. If the vessel was not Ben Yomo, then if the sharp food was already cooked and no longer sharp by the time the dairy vessel was inserted, the food is Kosher while the dairy utensil must be Koshered. If the sharp food was still sharp by the time the vessel was inserted, everything is forbidden unless there is 60x in the food versus the vessel, in which case the vessel is to be Koshered and the food is Kosher. If one cooked a Pareve food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot may he then cook it together with onions in a dairy pot?[11] Yes, as explained in the end of this Halacha in the Q&A! If one cooked lemon juice in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot may he drink it with milk? No.   May a Davar Charif which soaked in a meat container be used for milk?[12] It is forbidden to use Charif foods which soaked in a meat vessel [that has been used in the past for hot meat] for milk products, even if the meat vessel was not Ben Yomo.[13] Pickles and Olives: If pickles and olives have been pickled to the point that they can only be eaten with bread, they are considered a sharp food even Bedieved.[14] If they are not this sharp, one may be lenient to consider them a non-sharp food after the fact if they have already been used for milk products. May one use olives that were in a fleishig container for pizza?[15] No.

B. Pareve food is not Charif but pot was not clean of meat/dairy:[16]

If the meat pot contained meat residue [i.e. fat and oil] upon the non-Charif Pareve food being cooked in it, then the Pareve food is meaty and may not be eaten with milk. If, however, the Pareve food contains 60x versus the meat residue, then the food remains Pareve [if the pot was not Ben Yomo, and according to the Michaber, even if it was Ben Yomo, as explained in Halacha C]. [In general, we assume that the Pareve food in the pot contains 60x versus the fat residue unless one knows for certain that it does not.[17] However, if one only cooked a small amount of Pareve in the pot, then we assume it does not contain 60x, unless one knows for certain that it does.[18]]

Do we assume a random vessel is dirty or clean?[19] A typical vessel that has been washed is considered to have been washed well, unless one knows for certain that it was not washed well. [Thus, if the vessel was removed from the cabinet or dish rack we assume it is clean from fat even if one did not consciously verify that it was clean. If, however, it was removed from the sink and was not washed, we assume it is dirty.]

Q&A If a hot Pareve food was placed on top of a cold meat vessel which contains meat fat, what is the law of the food?[20] The Pareve food is considered meaty even if it contains 60x versus the fat being that the food only absorbs the fat into a Kelipa worth of itself, and it does not spread to become nullified in 60x.   Does leftover fat or oil residue on a vessel become not Ben Yomo after 24 hours?[21] No.

C. Pareve food is not Charif and pot was clean but the pot is Ben Yomo:[22]

• Michaber:[23]

Nat Bar Nat Dihetera-Remains Pareve: A Pareve non-Charif food [whether dry or with gravy[24]] which was cooked or roasted[25] in a clean[26] meat pot, remains Pareve and is permitted to be eaten with milk products. This applies even if the pot was Ben Yom, as the meat taste is Nat Bar Nat Dihetera.[27] [If, however, the Pareve food contains a meat taste, then it may not be eaten together with dairy.[28] However, some Poskim[29] rule that it may be eaten with dairy even if the Pareve food contains a meat taste.]

According to the Michaber, may one initially cook Pareve foods in a meat vessel in order to eat with Milk? Even according to the Michaber, it is initially forbidden to cook Pareve food in a Ben Yomo meat pot with intention to eat that Pareve food with dairy products.[30] [Thus, one may not heat water in a Ben Yomo meat pot for the sake of kneading dough, as one often eats bread with dairy.[31] The same applies vice versa.] However, some Poskim[32] rule that according to the Michaber it is permitted to even initially cook Pareve foods in Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat with dairy. [Even according to the first approach, if one already cooked the Pareve food in a Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat with dairy, he may go ahead and eat it with dairy.[33]] 

• Rama:[34]

Nat Bar Nat Dihetera-Initially becomes meaty/dairy: Some Poskim[35] rule that a Pareve food, even if it is not sharp, which was roasted or cooked in a clean Ben Yomo meat pot, is forbidden to be eaten with milk products.[36] Practically, the custom [of Ashkenazim[37]] is like this opinion and to initially prohibit eating or cooking such food with milk products.[38] However, Bedieved, if one already cooked it with milk products, the mixture is permitted [even if the food does not contain 60x].[39] [This applies whether the Pareve food was roasted or cooked in the meat pot.[40]]

Eating the Pareve food with dairy utensils: Pareve food which was cooked in a meat pot may be eaten with dairy utensils, even if the pot was Ben Yomo.[41] [The same applies vice versa. This applies even according to the stringent opinion above.[42]] However, one may not initially pour the hot Pareve food directly from the meat pot onto a milk utensil, rather a second utensil is to be used to transfer the food from the meat pot into the milk utensil.[43] [Possibly, this applies even if the dairy vessel is not Ben Yomo.[44]] However, if Bedieved one poured directly onto a dairy vessel, many Poskim[45] rule one may be lenient even regarding the vessel, even if both pots were Ben Yomo. However, according to the Rama[46], the dairy vessel is forbidden if the meat [and dairy vessel] are Ben Yomo.[47] If, however, one of the two was not Ben Yomo, everything is permitted Bedieved even according to the Rama.[48]

May one even initially cook in a meat pot with intent to eat with a dairy vessel: Some Poskim[49] rule one may even initially cook Pareve food in a Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat the food with milk utensils. Other Poskim[50], however, rule it is forbidden to do so unless it is a time of need.[51]

One used a Ben Yomo dairy/meat vessel for a Pareve food? See Halacha 4!

• Rashal:[52]

Nat Bar Nat Dihetera-Becomes meaty/dairy if roasted, even Bedieved: The Rashal rules that Pareve food which was roasted in a Ben Yomo meat pot, is forbidden to be eaten with milk products and even Bedieved the mixture is forbidden unless there is 60x versus in the milk versus the food. [Some Poskim[53] negate the ruling of the Rashal, while others[54] defend it. Practically, we rule like the Michaber/Rama that there is no difference between cooking and roasting, and either way the food is permitted Bedieved if mixed with the opposite food[55], and so seems to be the opinion of Admur.[56] Nonetheless, one who is stringent like the Rashal in a case that does not involve a great loss, is blessed.[57]]

If cooked:[58] The Rashal ibid is only stringent regarding a roasted food. However, a food that is cooked in liquid inside of a meat pot, or a food that is roasted in a meat pot that is Ben Yomo from meat that was cooked in liquid, is permitted Bedieved if it became mixed with dairy. However, the liquid of the food remains forbidden even Bedieved. If, however, the food was cooked in a meat pot that that is Ben Yomo from meat that was cooked in liquid, then even the liquid is permitted Bedieved to be eaten with dairy.

Eating the Pareve food with dairy utensils:[59] The Rashal rules that it is initially forbidden to eat the food with milk utensils. Practically, one who is lenient like the Rama has not lost out.

Summary: According to the Michaber and Sephardim, a Pareve non-Charif food which was cooked in a clean meat pot, remains Pareve and may be eaten with milk. According to the Rama and Ashkenazim, it is initially forbidden to eat it with milk products, although Bedieved, if one already cooked it with milk products, the mixture is permitted.   Q&A on Nat Bar Nat Does the concept of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera apply also to foods that have absorbed meat/milk taste and were then cooked with Pareve? Some Poskim[60] rule that the concept of Nat Bar Nat applies only to vessels and not to foods. [Thus, if a potato from a chicken soup became cooked with Pareve and that Pareve food then became cooked with dairy, the food is forbidden unless it contains 60x versus the potato.] Other Poskim[61], however, rule we do apply Nat Bar Nat even by foods, [and hence, in the above case, the dairy food is permitted and according to the Michaber, the Pareve food may even initially be eaten with dairy]. However, even according to this opinion, this only applies to solid foods which have absorbed taste of meat or milk, however liquids that have absorbed milk or meat gravy, are considered like actual meat/milk according to all.[62] Practically, we rule like the former opinion.[63]   Is a pot considered Nat Bar Nat Dihetera if it had a Pareve food which absorbed meat cooked in it?[64] Ø  Example: One heated a potato from a chicken soup inside of a pot. Is that pot now considered Ben Yomo of meat, and if one cooks dairy in it, he requires 60x? If the pot was Pareve, is that pot now considered meaty? The concept of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera only applies when meat taste has traveled to a vessel and from a vessel then traveled to a food. However, if it was vice versa, that the meat taste traveled to a food and only then traveled to a vessel, then the vessel is treated as if it had received fresh meat taste and is considered Ben Yomo. Thus, in the above example, the pot is now considered Ben Yomo of meat for all purposes and laws. If dairy or meat spilled on the walls of a hot pot which contains Pareve food, is the Pareve food considered Nat Bar Nat? Ø  Example: One cooked pasta in a dairy pot or in a Pareve pot, and milk splashed onto the wall of the pot. May the pasta initially be eaten with dairy [according to the Michaber] and Bedieved, if the pasta was mixed with dairy, does it remain Kosher? Some Poskim[65] rule that the concept of Nat Bar Nat does not apply during cooking.[66] Thus, if milk fell on the side of a pot that contained Pareve, within food level, it is considered according to all [i.e. Michaber and Rama] that the Pareve has absorbed direct milk taste, and if it does not contain 60x versus the milk, it is forbidden to eat it with meat and if one does so the mixture requires 60x. Other Poskim[67], however, rule that we apply the rule of Nat Bar Nat even in such a case, and hence according to the Michaber, the food remains Pareve even if it did not contain 60x versus the milk, and according to the Rama it remains Kosher Bedieved if it was mixed with meat, even if it does not contain 60x. Practically, one is to initially be stringent like the former opinion not to eat/cook the Pareve with meat, although Bedieved, if one already cooked it with meat, one may be lenient in a case of great loss to permit the mixture.[68]   If one cooked Pareve food in a dairy pot, may it be eaten together with Pareve food that was cooked in a meat pot? Ø  Example: One cooked rice in a clean Ben Yomo dairy pot and non-Charif soup in a clean Ben Yomo meat pot, may they be eaten together during the meal? It is permitted to eat a Nat Bar Nat dairy food with a Nat Bar Nat meat foods although one may not pour the content of either pot directly into each other.[69]

D. Pareve food is not Charif and pot was clean and is not Ben Yomo:[70]

• Rama:

If a Pareve non-Charif food was cooked in a clean non-Ben Yomo meat pot then the custom even according to the Rama, is to allow eating the Pareve food together with milk products even initially.[71]

• Rashal:[72]

The Rashal rules that initially one may not eat Pareve foods cooked in a non-Ben Yomo meat vessel together with milk.

 

Summary: A Pareve non-Charif food which was cooked in a clean non-Ben Yomo meat pot remains Pareve and may be eaten with milk.   Q&A May one even initially cook Pareve food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat it with the opposite food? Some Poskim[73] rule it is forbidden to initially cook Pareve food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat the food with milk products, or vice versa. Other, Poskim[74], however, rule that it is permitted to do so even initially with intent to eat with the opposite food.[75] Practically, Sephardim may be lenient even initially[76], and Ashkenazim may be lenient in a time of need, such as if there is no other pot available.[77] According to all, if one already cooked the Pareve food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat with milk, he may eat it with milk.[78]  May one cook Pareve in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot in order to eat with dairy if he has no other pots available?[79] Yes, as explained above. Having a special water pot:[80] Some are particular to have a special Pareve water pot for the sake of heating up water that will be used with other foods, and they do not heat up the water in a meat or dairy pot.

Compilation & Final Ruling The status of Pareve foods cooked in a meat pot or vice versa: If a Pareve food was cooked in a meat or dairy pot [or was cut with a meat or dairy knife while the Pareve food was hot[81]] then the law regarding whether the food remains Pareve, and one may eat the Pareve food with the opposite type of food that the pot [or knife] belonged to, is dependent on the following factors: 1. Was the Pareve food a Davar Charif or does it contain a Davar Charif? 2.  Was the pot [or knife] clean from residue of meat/milk? 3.  Is the pot [or knife] Ben Yomo? Pareve food is Charif:[82] If a Pareve Charif/sharp food was cooked in a meat pot then even if the pot was clean and not Ben Yomo, the food becomes meaty and is forbidden to be eaten with milk.[83] Bedieved, if one cooked this sharp food with dairy, one requires 60x in the dairy food versus the sharp food in order for the dish to be Kosher. Pot contains meat/dairy residue:[84] If the meat pot contained meat residue [i.e. fat and oil] upon the non-Charif Pareve food being cooked in it, then the Pareve food is meaty and may not be eaten with milk. If, however, the Pareve food contains 60x versus the meat residue and the pot was not Ben Yomo[85], then the food remains Pareve. [In general, we assume that the Pareve food in the pot contains 60x versus the fat residue unless one knows for certain that it does not.[86] However, if one only cooked a small amount of Pareve in the pot, then we assume it does not contain 60x, unless one knows for certain that it does.[87]] Pot is Ben Yomo:[88] Some Poskim[89] rule that a Pareve non-Charif food [whether dry or with gravy[90]] which was cooked or roasted[91] in a clean[92] meat pot, remains Pareve and is permitted to be eaten with milk products, even if the pot was Ben Yom.[93] Other Poskim[94] rule that a Pareve food which was roasted or cooked in a clean Ben Yomo meat pot, is forbidden to be eaten with milk products, even if the food is not sharp.[95] Practically, the custom [of Ashkenazim[96]] is like this opinion and to initially prohibit eating or cooking such food with milk products.[97] However, Bedieved, if one already cooked it with milk products, the mixture is permitted [even if the food does not contain 60x].[98] [This applies whether the Pareve food was roasted or cooked in the meat pot.[99]] Nonetheless, the food may even initially be eaten [and cooked] with dairy utensils, even if the pot was Ben Yomo.[100] [The same applies vice versa. This applies even according to the stringent opinion above.[101]] However, one may not initially pour the hot Pareve food directly from the meat pot onto a milk utensil, rather a second utensil is to be used to transfer the food from the meat pot into the milk utensil.[102] Pot is not Ben Yomo:[103] If a Pareve non-Charif food was cooked in a clean non-Ben Yomo meat pot then the custom even according to the Rama, is to allow eating the Pareve food together with milk products even initially.[104]   Summary:[105] If one cooked Pareve food in a dairy pot then if the pot is Ben Yomo or one cooked a Davar Charif in the pot [in a way that is defined as a Davar Charif as explained above], such as onions or garlic, or the pot was dirty with dairy residue, then it is forbidden to eat the food together with meat. Nevertheless, one may eat the food on meat vessels if the pot was clean and the food is not defined as a Davar Charif. Likewise, one may eat the food during a meat meal. If the pot is clean, not Ben Yomo and does not include a Davar Charif, one may eat it together with meat. Q&A If one cooked Pareve food in a dairy pot, may it be eaten together with Pareve food that was cooked in a meat pot? Ø  Example: One cooked rice in a dairy pot and soup in a meat pot, may they be eaten together during the meal? Matters the Rav must verify from the asker: The answer to this question depends on whether the pots were Ben Yomo and whether a Davar Charif ingredient was cooked in the pots. Thus, when a Rav is addressed this question he must verify these matters. Were onions and garlic placed in the foods? Was lemon added? Even if a Davar Charif was cooked in the pot, one must verify whether it was cooked first plain, without the food and then had the food added to it, or if it was all cooked simultaneously or after the food already began cooking. If it was cooked plain and then one added the other ingredients it has the status of a Davar Charif.[106] If it was all cooked together then it does not have a status of a Davar Charif unless it is the majority ingredient[107] or is strongly felt in the food[108]. The Law: If one cooked a Davar Charif in both pots [in a way that is defined as a Davar Charif as explained above], such as onions or garlic, then it is forbidden to eat them together or during the same meal. [Thus if in the example the soup and rice were both cooked with onions, they may not be eaten in the same meal, even if both pots were not Ben Yomo.] If both pots are not Ben Yomo and do not include a Davar Charif they may be eaten together. If one of the pots contain a Davar Charif and the other does not, then if the other pot is Ben Yomo it is forbidden to be eaten together. If the other pot is not Ben Yomo it may be eaten together. If none of the pots contain Charif but one of the pots is Ben Yomo, then it may be eaten together. However one may not pour the Ben Yomo content into the non-Ben Yomo. If both pots did not contain a Davar Charif but both pots are Ben Yomo then it is permitted to eat the foods together but one may not pour the content of either pot directly into the other pot.[109] See the chart below for a table of ruling and scenarios! What is the law if a hot Yad Soledes Pareve food was cut with a meat/dairy knife? See Chapter 96 Halacha 2 in Q&A! May a Nat Bar Nat food be cooked in a Davar Charif?[110] Ø  Example: One cooked rice in a clean dairy pot may one heat it with onions in a meat pot? Yes. It is permitted to do so even if the meat and dairy pot are Ben Yomo.[111]

Chart for Q&A

	Meat Charif	Meat Ben Yomo	Meat non-ben yomo
Dairy Charif	Forbidden	Forbidden according to Rama	Permitted; don’t pour Charif into meat pot
Dairy Ben Yomo	Forbidden according to Rama	Permitted in third bowl; Do not place in the meat or dairy pot	Permitted; don’t pour Ben Yomo in meat
Dairy not Ben Yomo	Permitted; don’t pour Charif into dairy pot	Permitted; don’t pour Ben Yomo in dairy	Permitted in all scenarios

2. May one cook fish in a meat pot?[112]

The Michaber 95:1 discussed the question of whether fish cooked in a meat pot may be eaten with dairy. The details of this law were discussed in Halacha 1. Now, we will address the general question of whether cooking fish in a meat pot poses an issue of Sakana.

If the pot is dirty with meat:^[113] It is forbidden due to Sakana to cook fish in a meat pot that contains residue of meat. If one did so, the fish is forbidden. If the fish contains 60x the meat residue then some Poskim[114] rule the fish is permitted while other Poskim[115] rule it is forbidden. Practically, we rule like the former opinion that the fish is permitted if the meat residue is nullified in 60x.[116]

Pot is clean: It is even initially permitted to cook fish in a clean meat pot. This applies even if the pot is Ben Yomo.[117] However, some Poskim[118] are stringent to initially forbid cooking fish in a meat pot and hence they require having separate pots for meat and fish.[119] Practically, the widespread custom is to be lenient.[120] However, some are meticulous and designate separate pots for fish and do not to use the meat pots for fish products.[121] [The Hashgacha of Rav Landau in Bnei Brak has separate utensils for fish and meat, including pots, pans, knives, cutlery, grinders, microwaves, and mittens.] Nevertheless, even according to those who are accustomed to being stringent, Bedieved if they cooked fish in a meat pot, the fish remains permitted even if the meat pot was Ben Yomo.[122]

 

Summary: It is permitted to cook fish in a clean meat pot, and so is the widespread custom, although some are meticulous not to do so.   Q&A May one cook fish in a meat pot if it contains a Davar Charif? Some Poskim[123] rule that one may not cook fish in a meat pot together with sharp foods, such as onions.[124] However, the widespread custom of the world is to be lenient regarding this.[125] May one cook onions that are cut with a meat knife together with fish? Some Poskim[126] rule that Lechatchilah one is to be stringent not to cook onions that have been cut with a meat knife together with fish.[127] However, the widespread custom of the world is to be lenient regarding this.[128]

3. Status of egg cooked with meat or in meat pot [129]

Egg cooked in clean Ben Yomo dairy pot: If an egg was cooked in a [clean[130]] Ben Yomo dairy pot then according to the Michaber it is permitted even initially to eat the egg together with meat.[131] [This applies even if the egg was peeled from its shell prior to being cooked, so long as the pot was not dirty.[132]] However, according to the Rama, the egg is considered dairy and is initially forbidden to be eaten with meat.

Egg cooked with meat: If an egg was cooked together with meat it is forbidden [even according to the Michaber] to eat the egg with dairy. This applies even if the egg was cooked within its shell.[133]

4. Status of hot Pareve food placed on meat utensil:[134]

Cold Pareve food on hot plate/pot:[135] If a cold Pareve food was placed on a hot clean meat or dairy plate/pot, the food remains Pareve according to all opinions and may even initially be eaten with the opposite food. This applies even if the pot/plate was Ben Yomo.[136]

Hot Pareve food on cold plate/pot:[137] If a hot Pareve food was placed on a cold clean meat or dairy plate/pot, then the Pareve food remains Pareve and may be eaten with the opposite food. This applies even if the food was very hot and the plate was Ben Yomo.

Hot Pareve food on hot plate/pot:[138] If a hot Pareve food was placed on a hot[139] Keli Rishon clean Ben Yomo meat pot or plate, then according to the Rama the Pareve food becomes meaty and may not initially be eaten with dairy products. [However, Bedieved, it is permitted even according to the Rama. According to the Michaber it is permitted even initially. According to the Rashal, it is forbidden even Bedieved, unless it contains gravy.[140]]

May one initially place hot Pareve food onto a meat plate with intent to eat with dairy?[141] Lechatchilah, one may not place a hot Pareve food on a Ben Yomo dairy utensil if one intends to eat it with meat.[142]

Summary and Final Ruling: If one placed a hot Pareve food on a meat or dairy vessel, the food remains Pareve unless the vessel was hot and Ben Yomo. If the Pareve food was hot but the plate was cold or vice versa, the food remains Pareve, although it is initially forbidden to do so if one plans to eat the food with the opposite food of the food type the vessel belongs to.

5. Meat and milk utensils washed together simultaneously: [143]

If dairy and meaty vessels were washed together, then the ruling regarding the status of the vessels is dependent on the following factors:

1. Was the water hot or cold?
2. Was the hot water Keli Rishon or Keli Sheiyni?
3. Were the pots clean or dirty with meat/dairy residue?
4. Were the pots Ben Yomo?[144]
5. Was there 60x in the water versus one of the vessels or versus the food residue?

 

A. Cold or warm water below Yad Soledes:

If one washed dairy and meat vessels simultaneously using cold water, or any water that is less than Yad Soledes, then everything remains Kosher even if the vessels were dirty with meat and dairy residue and were Ben Yomo.

 

Kavush Lemevushal-The law if the vessels soaked together in the water for 24 hours: Vessels were dirty:[145] If meat and dairy vessels soaked together in water for 24 hours, then if there was dairy and meat residue on the vessels, then it is considered as if they were washed together in a  Keli Rishon, as ruled in Halacha B in scenario 1. Thus, everything is forbidden unless the water contains 60x versus the residue, as explained there. If one is unsure whether the meat and milk remained together for 24 hours they are both permitted.[146] Vessels were clean but Ben Yomo:[147] If clean Ben Yomo meat and dairy vessels soaked together in water for 24 hours, then everything is permitted, as by the time the 24 hours are reached, the vessels are no longer Ben Yomo. [See Halacha B Scenario 4]

 

B. Hot Yad Soledes water in a Keli Rishon:[148]

• The scenario: One heated water in a large pot over the fire and washed dairy and meat vessels simultaneously in the hot water that is in that pot. What is the status of the vessels? This matter is dependent on whether the vessels were clean of meta/dairy residue, or not, and whether the vessels are Ben Yomo.
• Rule-When is a vessel considered dirty?[149] Vessels that are waiting to be washed are assumed to be dirty with food remnants unless one knows for certain that they were clean. Thus, the status quo of all meat and dairy vessels being washed when doing dishes are assumed to have meat/dairy leftovers on them unless one knows for certain that they were clean of meat or milk.

The five possible scenarios:

1. Both vessels contained leftover meat and milk:

If dirty meat vessels and dirty dairy vessels which contain meat and dairy residue were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon, then all the vessels are forbidden [even with Pareve and hence must be Koshered[150]]. [This applies even if the vessels were not Ben Yomo.[151]] If, however, there is 60x in the water [and leftover meat/milk[152]] versus the meat and milk residue, then everything is permitted [if the meat and dairy vessels were not both Ben Yomo[153]]. [If there is 60x versus only one of food residues while the other food residue does not have 60x against it, then if the pot which has 60x its remnants is Ben Yomo, everything is forbidden. If, however, that pot is not Ben Yomo then that vessel alone is forbidden while everything else is permitted, as explained in scenario 2.[154] In general, we do not assume that there is 60x in the washing water versus the residue unless one knows for certain that there is.[155] In general, we assume that vessels waiting to be washed are dirty with meat/dairy leftovers unless one states for certain that they were clean.[156]]

2. One vessel is dirty and the other is clean but Ben Yomo:[157]

If meat and dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon, and either the milk or meat utensil had dairy or meat residue on them [whether or not that vessel is Ben Yomo] and the other vessel is Ben Yomo, then all the vessels are forbidden unless there is 60x in the water versus the food residue that was on the dirty vessel.[158] [In addition, according to the Rama, if both vessels are Ben Yomo the water must also have 60x versus one of the vessels, as explained in scenario 5.] Thus, for example, if clean Ben Yomo meat vessels and dirty dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon, everything is forbidden unless there is 60x.

3. One vessel is dirty and the other is clean and is not Ben Yomo:[159]

If meat and dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon, and the meat vessel is dirty with meat residue [whether or not it is Ben Yomo] while the dairy vessel is clean and not Ben Yomo, then the meat vessel [and water] remain Kosher while the dairy vessel is forbidden [unless there is 60x in the water versus the leftover meat].[160]

4. If both the utensils were clean and at least one of them is not Ben Yomo:[161]

If meat and dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon and the meat and dairy vessels were known to be completely clean from meat and milk residue, then if at least one of the vessels is not Ben Yomo, whether this is the meat or milk vessel, then all the vessels remain Kosher.[162] [However, Lechatchilah, one may not wash them together even if they are both clean and one is not Ben Yomo.] However, the water is initially forbidden to be drunk.[163] [However, if both vessels are clean and both are not Ben Yomo, then seemingly it is even initially permitted to wash them together in hot water, and even the water remains permitted to be drunk.[164]]

5. If the utensils were all clean but were both Ben Yomo:

• Michaber:[165]

If meat and dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon and the meat and dairy vessels were known to be completely clean from meat and milk residue, then all the vessels remain Kosher even if both vessels were Ben Yomo.[166] [Nevertheless, even according to the Michaber, it is initially forbidden to wash them together if they are both Ben Yomo.[167] Practically, the Sephardic ruling and custom follows the opinion of the Michaber to permit everything; the vessels and the water.[168] However, one who is stringent to Kosher them, is blessed.[169]]

• Rama:

If meat and dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon there are Poskim[170] who rule that even if both utensils were clean, if both were Ben Yomo, the entire mixture is forbidden, and all the vessels must be Kashered. The [Ashkenazi[171]] custom is like this opinion and it is forbidden to swerve from the custom. [If, however, there is 60x in the water versus the dairy or meat vessel, then everything remains permitted.[172]]

The reason:[173] The reason the Rama holds that the entire mixture becomes forbidden is because

1. Perhaps the utensils came into contact with each other and thus dissipated taste directly into each other. This transferring of taste is Nat Bar Nat Deissura.
2. Since the water contains the taste of both foods which were dissipated from the meat and dairy vessels, therefore, when an opposite taste enters the water. it is considered Nat Bar Nat Deissura.

See Chart of all five scenarios at the end of this Halacha!

C. Iruiy Keli Rishon:

See Halacha 7 regarding if one poured hot Pareve Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water onto meat and milk vessels!

 

D. Hot Yad Soledes water in a Keli Sheiyni:[174]

• The scenario: One heated water in a large pot over the fire and poured the water into a plugged sink and washed dairy and meat vessels simultaneously in the hot water that is in the sink.

The law: If meat and dairy utensils were washed together simultaneously in a Keli Sheiyni, everything remains Kosher [even if the vessels were dirty with meat and milk residue[175] and are Ben Yomo, and even if the water is very hot]. [Nevertheless, Lechatchilah one is not wash meat and dairy dishes in any hot water that is Yad Soledes.[176]]

Summary: If meat and dairy vessels were washed together simultaneously, they are only forbidden if they were washed inside of a hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon, and both pots were Ben Yomo, or dirty, or one was Ben Yomo and the other was dirty. If both pots were clean and one was not Ben Yomo, or the water was less than Yad Soledes, or in a Keli Sheiyni, everything is permitted.   See Compilation of this entire subject in end of the chapter!

 

Chart for Keli Rishon Yad Soledes [Halacha B]

	Meat clean Non-Ben Yomo	Meat clean Ben Yomo	Meat dirty Non-Ben yomo	Meat dirty Ben Yomo
Dairy clean Non-Ben Yomo	All Mutar	All Mutar	Dairy pot Assur, unless 60x meat	All Assur unless there is 60x the dirt.
Dairy clean Ben Yomo	All Mutar	Michaber: Kosher Rama: Treif unless 60x versus one vessel.	All Assur, unless 60x meat	All Assur unless there is 60x the food and also the pot [according to Rama]
Dairy dirty Non Ben Yomo	Meat pot Assur, unless 60x milk	All Assur unless there is 60x versus the milk	All Assur unless 60x. If 60x both foods, all kosher. If 60x one food then the non-60x is Treif.	All Assur unless 60x. If 60x both foods, all kosher. If 60x one food then if is 60x versus the dairy, then the meat vessel is Kosher and dairy forbidden, if is 60x versus the meat then all is Treif
Dairy dirty Ben Yomo	Meat pot Assur, unless 60x dirt	All Assur unless there is 60x the dirt and also the pot [according to Rama]	All Assur unless 60x. If 60x both foods all kosher. If 60x one food then if is 60x versus the meat then the dairy vessel is Kosher and meat vessel is forbidden. If is 60x versus the dairy then all is Treif	Assur unless has 60x versus both foods and at least one vessel. If 60x versus only one food, all is Treif.

                                                                                                                  

Chart of Nat Bar Nat

*Not=Nosein Tam [direct taste such as a piece of meat or cheese]

*Not Bar Not=Nosein Taam Bar Nosein Tam [indirect taste]

	Michaber	Rama
Not with Not [meat cooked with cheese]	60x	60x
Not Bar Not Deisura with Not [Pareve cooked in Ben Yomo meat pot and cheese stuck inside]	60x	60x
Not Bar Not Dehetera with Not [Pareve cooked in Ben Yomo meat pot and then placed in vessel with milk]	Permitted even Lechatchilah	Forbidden Lechatchilah. Permitted Bedieved
Not Bar Not Deisura with Not Bar Not Deissura [Pareve cooked in Ben Yomo meat that had Ben Yomo milk spoon inserted]	Permitted	Forbidden
Not Bar Not Dihetera with Not Bar Not Deissura [Pareve cooked in Ben Yomo meat placed in Pareve cooking in Ben Yomo milk]	Permitted	Seemingly permitted[177]
Not Bar Not Dihetera with Nat Bar Not Dehetera [Pareve cooked in Ben Yomo meat and Pareve cooking in Ben Yomo milk placed in separate bowl]	Permitted	Seemingly permitted[178]

6. Meat and milk vessels washed in a Keli Rishon one after the other:[179]

If the vessels were clean:[180] If meat and dairy vessels were washed in a hot Keli Rishon one after the other, then if one knows for certain that both of the vessels were clean from meat and milk residue, then even if both set of vessels were Ben Yomo, everything remains Kosher.[181]

If one of the vessels were dirty: If meat and dairy vessels were washed in a hot Keli Rishon one after the other and one of the vessels were dirty with meat or dairy residue, then if the first set of vessels was dirty the second set becomes forbidden, even if the second set was clean and not Ben Yomo [unless the water had 60x the food remnant of the first set]. If, however, the first set was clean and the second set was dirty, then everything remains permitted even if the first set was Ben Yomo.[182]

7. Pouring hot Pareve food from a meat pot into a dairy pot:[183]

If one poured hot Pareve food from a dairy pot into a meat pot, or vice versa, the law is dependent on the following factors:

1. Is the water Yad Soledes and is it being poured from a Keli Rishon?
2. Was it Nifsak Hakiluach?[184]
3. Are the pots clean?
4. Are the pots Ben Yomo?

 

A. Water below Yad Soledes or Keli Sheiyni:[185]

If one poured below Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water, or hot Yad Soledes Keli Sheiyni water from a meat vessel to a dairy vessel everything remains Kosher even if the vessels were dirty with meat and dairy residue and were Ben Yomo.

 

B. Pots contain meat and dairy residue:[186]

If one poured hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water from a meat vessel that contained meat residue onto a dairy vessel that contained milk residue, then the dairy vessel is forbidden while the meat vessel which one poured from is permitted.[187] [This applies even if only the top meat vessel contains residue.[188] This possibly applies even if Nifsak Hakileach.[189] If, however, only the bottom dairy vessel contained residue, then if the meat pot was Ben Yomo, this matter is subject to debate as brought in B.]

 

C. Both pots are clean and Ben Yomo and Lo Nifsak Hakiluach:

• Michaber:[190]

Permitted: If one poured hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water from a clean Ben Yomo meat vessel onto a clean Ben Yomo dairy vessel, everything remains permitted.[191]

• Rama[192] and Taz[193]:

Forbidden: The food, and the vessel into which it was poured onto, are forbidden.[194] [However, the upper pot which the food was poured from remains Kosher.[195]]

• Shach[196] and other Poskim[197]:

Permitted and may be lenient in case of need or great loss: Everything is permitted as rules the Michaber, and so rules Issur Viheter. Even the Rama in Toras Chatas[198] rules the vessel is Kosher, although he concludes that the custom is to be stringent unless there is a need or great loss.

 

D. Both pots are clean and Ben Yomo but Nifsak Hakiluach:[199]

If one poured hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water from a clean Ben Yomo meat vessel onto a clean Ben Yomo dairy vessel and the stream broke from the pouring vessel [i.e. Nifsak Hakilauch] by the time it reached the milk vessel, then everything remains Kosher.[200]

 

E. Both pots are clean and one of the pots are not Ben Yomo:[201]

If one poured hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water from a clean Ben Yomo meat vessel onto a clean non-Ben Yomo dairy vessel then since the bottom vessel being poured into is not Ben Yomo, everything remains Kosher.[202] [The same applies if the top vessel is not Ben Yomo, while the bottom vessel is Ben Yomo.[203] Nevertheless, Lechatchila, one should not pour the food into the other vessel even if one of the pots is not Ben Yomo.[204]]

 

F. Pouring from Issur to Heter:[205]

If one poured Kosher food from a Ben Yomo Issur vessel onto a Heter vessel, the Heter vessel which the food was poured on is forbidden. However, all subsequent vessels that the poured Issur food reaches remain permitted. [This, however, only applies if Nifsak Hakiluach by the time the stream hit the subsequent vessels, however, all vessels which the stream hits while the stream is still attached to the Issur pot, also become forbidden even if the stream flowed from one Heter vessel to another.[206]]

Compilation & Final Ruling Pouring hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon Pareve food from a meat pot into milk pot:[207] Pots contain meat and dairy residue:[208] If one poured hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water from a meat vessel that contained meat residue onto a dairy vessel that contained milk residue, then the dairy vessel is forbidden while the meat vessel which one poured from is permitted.[209] [This applies even if only the top meat vessel contains residue.[210] This possibly applies even if Nifsak Hakileach.[211] If, however, only the bottom dairy vessel contained residue, then if the meat pot was Ben Yomo, this matter is subject to debate as brought next.] Both pots are clean and Ben Yomo: If one poured hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water from a clean Ben Yomo meat vessel onto a clean Ben Yomo dairy vessel, then some Poskim[212] rule that everything remains permitted.[213] Other Poskim[214], however, rule that the food, and the vessel into which it was poured onto, are forbidden.[215] [However, the upper pot which the food was poured from remains Kosher even according to this opinion.[216]] Practically, one may be lenient in a case of need or great loss.[217] [If  the stream broke from the pouring vessel [i.e. Nifsak Hakilauch] by the time it reached the milk vessel, then everything remains Kosher, even according to the stringent opinion.[218]] Both pots are clean and one of the pots are not Ben Yomo:[219] If one poured hot Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water from a clean Ben Yomo meat vessel onto a clean non-Ben Yomo dairy vessel then since the bottom vessel being poured into is not Ben Yomo, everything remains Kosher.[220] [The same applies if the top vessel is not Ben Yomo, while the bottom vessel is Ben Yomo.[221] Nevertheless, Lechatchila, one should not pour the food into the other vessel even if one of the pots is not Ben Yomo.[222]]   Q&A on pouring May one pour hot Pasta that was cooking in a meat pot into a dairy strainer? If the pot is Ben Yomo from meat, it is initially forbidden to do so, as explained above.   May one pour hot Pasta that was cooking in a Ben Yomo meat pot into a Pareve strainer that is in a Ben Yomo dairy pot or sink? No, as explained above that one cannot pour directly onto the other dish even if it is not Ben Yomo. Furthermore, if one did so, possibly even the pasta becomes forbidden according to Rama, as the pasta has been attached through the stream to a Ben Yomo meat and dairy vessel. What is the law if one poured the Pareve food that was cooking in a Ben Yomo meat pot onto milk or cheese? Possibly the Pareve food and milk/cheese are forbidden even according to the Michaber as this is a case of Nat Bar Nat meeting actual taste.   What is the law if one poured the Pareve food into a Ben Yomo dairy vessel; may the Pareve food be eaten with meat? See Halacha 4!

8. The status of the vessel when pouring from a Pareve vessel onto meat/milk:[223]

• Example: May one pour hot or cold water from a Pareve kettle/vessel onto hot or cold meat or milk? If one did so, does the vessel and remaining food remain Pareve?

Pouring from cold to hot: The law regarding other Issurim:[224] It is forbidden to pour from a Kosher vessel which contains food onto a vessel which contains a hot [Keli Rishon] Issur.[225] If one transgressed and poured from a cold Kosher food onto a hot Issur food, the food that remains in the Kosher vessel and the vessel itself nevertheless remain permitted [so long as one poured from a distance, in a way that the steam of the Issur did not hit the Heter pot while still Yad Soledes[226]].[227] The law regarding Pareve:[228] Based on the above, the following would be the corresponding ruling regarding pouring from cold Pareve onto hot meat/milk: One should not pour food from a Pareve vessel into a hot pot of meat or dairy if one plans to continue to use the vessel and remaining food as Pareve. Thus, in the above example, one is not to initially pour cold water from a Pareve vessel onto hot meat or dairy. However, Bedieved if one did so, the pot and its remaining food remains Pareve so long as it was a distance away from the hot meat/dairy and did not absorb any of its steam, and no part of the meat or dairy splashed onto the Pareve vessel. However, some[229] suggest that by Pareve being poured onto hot meat or milk, one is to be stringent even Bedieved to consider the Pareve food [and pot] as meaty/dairy.[230]

Pouring from hot onto hot:[231] Some Poskim[232] rule that if both the Heter and Issur are hot it is permitted even initially to pour from the Heter into the Issur [so long as the Heter pot is a distance from the Issur pot in a way that the Issur’s steam or splash will not contact it[233]]. [Accordingly, one may pour hot Pareve from a Pareve pot directly into hot meat or dairy, so long as he pours from a distance.] Other Poskim[234], however, are stringent even in such a case that one may not initially pour even hot Heter into hot Issur [even if one pours from a distance]. [Accordingly, one may not initially pour hot Pareve from a Pareve pot directly into hot meat or dairy, even if he pours from a distance.]

Pouring from hot onto cold? It is permitted even initially to pour from a hot Pareve vessel onto cold meat/milk.[235] However, from some Poskim[236] it seems that one is to be stringent even in such a case.  Certainly one is to be stringent not to pour from so close of a distance that the steam hits the Pareve vessel, after having been poured on the meat/dairy.[237]

Summary: It is best to avoid pouring liquids from a Pareve vessel onto meat or dairy unless both the Pareve food and the meat/dairy foods are cold. This especially applies, and is required, if the Pareve food is cold while the meat/milk is hot. However, if both the Pareve and meat/dairy are hot, or the Pareve is hot and the meat/dairy is cold, then one may choose to be lenient so long as it is done from a far enough distance that hot steam from the meat/milk will not contact the Pareve. Bedieved, if one poured from cold Pareve to hot meat/dairy, the remaining Pareve food and vessel remain Pareve so long as hot steam of the meat/milk did not hit the Pareve, although some are stringent in such a case that it is no longer considered Pareve.   Practical Applications Pouring hot water from a Pareve urn, or water dispenser, onto hot or cold meat/dairy: It is best to avoid pouring hot water from a Pareve urn onto meat or dairy, whether hot or cold, however, those who do so have upon whom to rely.   Pouring cold water from a Pareve urn, pitcher, water cooler, Brita filter, onto meat/dairy: One may not pour cold water from an urn, pitcher, water cooler, onto hot Keli Rishon meat or milk. If one did so, the water nevertheless remains Pareve. One may pour cold water onto cold [i.e. less than Yad Soledes, or Keli Sheiyni] meat/milk in all cases.   Pouring cold Pareve oil into hot meat/milk: One may not pour cold oil from a Pareve oil jar onto hot Keli Rishon meat or milk. If one did so, the oil nevertheless remains Pareve. One may pour cold oil onto cold [i.e. less than Yad Soledes, or Keli Sheiyni] meat/milk in all cases.   Pouring ketchup or salt onto hot meat/milk: One may pour ketchup or salt onto hot meat/milk so long as the vessel does not come in contact with the meat/dairy or its hot vapor.

9. Poured hot water onto meat and milk vessels:[238]

If one poured hot Pareve Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water [from a Pareve or non-Ben Yomo pot[239]] onto meat and milk vessels, then the ruling is dependent on whether the vessels were dirty or clean, and whether they were Ben Yomo or not Ben Yomo:

 

A. If the vessels were all clean but Ben Yomo:[240]

If one poured hot Pareve Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water onto meat and milk vessels, then if both meat and dairy vessels were clean, everything remains permitted even if these vessels were Ben Yomo.[241] [However, regarding a case that one poured onto an Issur and Heter pot, some Poskim[242] rule that everything is forbidden if the Issur pot was Ben Yomo. However, according to the Rama, the Heter pot would remain permitted.[243]]

 

B. If the pots are dirty with remnant of food:[244]

• Rama:[245]

Permitted: If one poured hot Pareve Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water onto meat and dairy vessels which contain meat and dairy residue, nonetheless, everything remains permitted.[246] [This applies even if the water poured does not contain 60x versus the residue.]

• Shach[247], Taz[248] and other Poskim[249]:

Forbidden: If one poured hot Pareve Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water onto meat and dairy vessels, then if the vessels have meat and milk residue on them, everything is forbidden [unless it is a case of great loss[250]].[251] [This applies even according to the Michaber and Sephardic ruling]. If only one of the vessels had food remnants while the other was clean [whether or not it was Ben Yomo], then the clean vessel becomes forbidden.[252] [Likewise, if the water poured contains 60x versus a Kelipa’s worth of the residue of one of the vessels, then only that vessel is forbidden.[253]]

Q&A Practically what is the law if one poured hot water into his meat sink and he then found a milk vessel in it? Ø  Example: One is washing dishes with hot water and amongst the dishes he finds a dairy vessel. If the water is below Yad Soledes, everything remains permitted. If the water is above Yad Soledes, then all the meat vessels remain Kosher unless the dairy vessel was dirty with milk and the water did not contain 60x a peels worth of it, in which case the meat vessels are forbidden unless it is a case of great loss.[254] If the meat vessels were dirty with meat then the dairy vessel is to be Koshered unless it is a case of great loss. In the event that there was soap in the water throughout the entire time of the pouring, then everything remains permitted, as explained in Halacha 11. The status of a sink used for washing meat and dairy vessels with Iruiy Keli Rishon:[255] A sink which is used for washing both meat and dairy dishes is considered Treif due to the pouring of hot Keli Rishon meat and milk into the sink[256], and due to the pouring of hot water into the sink while it contains dirty meat or dairy vessels.[257] Thus, some Poskim[258] learn that it is forbidden to wash meat and dairy dishes in this sink using hot Yad Soledes water, as the water will extract the Treif taste found within the material of the sink and in turn prohibit the vessels. Other Poskim[259], however, learn that there is no need to avoid doing so.

10. May one Kosher meat and dairy vessels in the same pot of Hagala?[260]

Simultaneously: It is forbidden to Kosher meat and dairy vessels in the same water simultaneously unless one of the two apply: 1) There is 60x in the water versus the vessels, in which case it is allowed even if both are Ben Yomo. Or 2) One of the vessels is not Ben Yomo and both are clean, in which case it is allowed even if there is not 60x in the water versus the vessels.[261] [This law initially applies even according to the Michaber.[262]]

One after the other: It is permitted to Kosher meat and milk vessels in the same water one after the other even if both vessels are Ben Yomo, as this is the classical case of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera.

11. One found a dairy vessel amongst the meat vessels or vice versa:

Found in drying rack, cabinet, or drawer:[263] If one found a dairy vessel on his meat drying rack or inside the meat drawer, the vessels remain permitted.[264] [This applies even if one is accustomed to wash his dishes in hot Keli Rishon water.[265] Some Poskim[266] rule that this applies even if one knows for certain that both vessels were Ben Yomo or dirty with meat and milk, nevertheless, everything remains permitted.[267] Other Poskim[268], however, rule that if one knows for certain that the vessels were dirty with food, or Ben Yomo, and he is accustomed to wash the vessels in a Keli Rishon, then it is forbidden unless the water contained 60x versus the residue.[269] Practically, one is to Kosher all the Kosherable vessels, and those vessels which are not Kosherable may be used after 24 hours.[270] If one is not accustomed to wash the vessels in hot Keli Rishon water, it is Kosher in all cases, even if one knows that the vessels were dirty and Ben Yomo.]

Found in the Keli Rishon washing pot:[271] If after washing dishes one found a dairy vessel in his Keli Rishon washing pot, then according to all opinions the vessel is forbidden unless one is sure that it was not washed together with other meat vessels, or he is sure that all the vessels were clean and not Ben Yomo, or he is unsure regarding both of these matters.

One found a milk vessel in his meat sink: If one found a dairy vessel in his meat sink, then if one is not accustomed to wash the dishes with hot Keli Rishon water, everything is permitted. If he is accustomed to wash the dishes with hot Keli Rishon water [i.e. Iruiy Keli Rishon] then seemingly one may be lenient to permit the vessels if he is unsure if there was meat/dairy in the sink.[272] If, however, one knows for certain that the vessels were dirty with meat and he is knows that he poured Keli Rishon water over them, then one may only be lenient in a case of great loss, as explained in Halacha 8B.[273]

Q&A What is the law if one found a milk vessel in his meat dishwasher?[274] If one found a dairy vessel in his meat dishwasher which uses Yad Soledes water, then if one does not know for certain that the meat vessels were clean, the dairy vessel is forbidden.[275] [However, the meat vessels remain permitted if one can assume that there were 60x against any dairy residue.] If, however, soap was used throughout the entire period of the hot washing, then many Poskim are lenient to permit all the vessels, as explained next. Possibly one may rely on this if he is unsure if the vessels were dirty with meat.[276] Likewise, even if he is positive that there was meat and dairy residue there, some dishwashers may be defined as Iruiy Keli Rishon, and would contain an added leniency.

12. Placing ash or soap in the water used to wash meat and milk dishes:

• Michaber:[277]

If ash [or another spoiling agent such as soap[278] is] placed in water, it destroys and spoils any meat or milk taste which it has absorbed. Thus, one may wash his dirty milk and meat vessels together in a hot Keli Rishon if he places ash [or another spoiling agent] into the water prior to placing the vessels inside. [Likewise, one may wash meat dishes in a Ben Yomo Keli Rishon dairy pot if a spoiling agent is added.[279] One may then continue to use the dairy pot for dairy.[280]]

• Shach:[281]

The Shach questions[282] the ruling of the Michaber, and concludes with a Tzaruch Iyun. In Nekudos Hakesef, the Shach explains that even the Michaber is only lenient if there is minute amount of food on the vessels. If, however, there is a lot of food on the pots, then even according to the Michaber the mixture would be forbidden.

• Taz:[283]

The Taz questions[284] the ruling of the Michaber, and concludes with a Tzaruch Iyun.

 

Compilation & Final Ruling: Many Poskim[285] rule that, ash, soap, and other spoiling agents of the like render the taste of a food as spoiled and hence permits washing meat and milk dishes simultaneously in these blemished waters. Other Poskim[286], however, question the accuracy of this ruling. Practically, one may be lenient in a case of loss or need.[287]   The custom of placing ash [or other Pagum item] into an egg pot:[288] Based on the above lenient ruling, in some communities the women are accustomed to place ash into an egg pot upon cooking eggs. By doing so, one accomplishes that if one of the eggs are discovered to have been forbidden [i.e. blood, chick], all the other eggs remain Kosher.[289] The ash is to be placed into the water prior to the eggs being warmed.[290] The custom of placing soap into the Hagalah pot:[291] Based on the above lenient ruling, the custom amongst many today is to place soap into the Hagalah water used for Koshering in order to render any food or taste that enters into the water as Pagum, and prevent a possibility of spreading non-Kosher foods to other vessels. What is the law if non-Kosher soap and the like fell into one’s food?[292] Based on the lenient ruling above, if an inedible item, such as soap and the like, fell into one’s food, the food remains Kosher even if the item contains non-Kosher ingredients, being that the soap is Pagum. Thus, if Cheilev soap fell into one’s food, the food remains permitted. If one cooked soap in a Ben Yomo meat pot, does it lose its Ben Yomo status? Some Poskim[293] rule that the pot loses its Ben Yomo status if a Pagum item was cooked in it. Thus, if one cooked milk in a Ben Yomo meat or Issur pot that was had soap heated in it prior to the milk use, then the milk remains permitted. Other Poskim[294], however, rule that the Pagum item only spoils actual food and not the absorbed taste that is found in the walls of a pot. Thus, in the above case the pot remains Ben Yomo, and any milk cooked in it within the 24 hours is forbidden.

13. Placing milk products near salt or vinegar:[295]

A vessel which contain Kutach [or other milk products] is not to be placed near salt [which is designated as Pareve or meaty].[296] [This applies even if the vessels are not touching each other.[297]] This, however, only applies if both the dairy product and salt are in uncovered vessels.[298] [However, if either the salt or milk product is covered, then they may be placed near each other. Nonetheless, some Poskim[299] rule that one is not to place the two vessels near each other to the point that they are touching, even if they are both covered. Practically, one is to suspect for their opinion and not place salt and milk products near each other unless one is covered and they are not touching.[300]]

Bedieved:[301] If one transgressed and left uncovered salt near uncovered milk, the salt nevertheless remains permitted to be eaten with meat.[302] [However, some Poskim[303] rule that if the dairy and salt vessels were touching each other, then the salt may not initially be used for meat, although Bedieved the meat remains Kosher. This stringency only applies if the vessels were made of earthenware, while if they were made of metal, everyone agrees that if one transgressed, the salt may even initially be used for meat.[304]]

Vinegar:[305] It is permitted to place a vessel which contains Kutach [or other milk products] near vinegar [which is designated as Pareve or meaty].[306]

 

Summary: One may not place Pareve salt near meat and milk products if they are both uncovered or of they are touching.

14. Placing milk products near meat products:[307]

• Michaber:

Permitted: It is permitted to place milk near meat even if both are uncovered.[308] [Likewise, one may place Issur foods near Heter foods even if both are uncovered.[309]]

• Rama:

Initially avoid: Nevertheless, there are those who are initially stringent to avoid doing so [if both the meat and dairy are uncovered[310]]. Practically, it is proper to suspect for this opinion if there is no need to be lenient in this.[311] [If, however, either the meat or milk is covered, according to all there is no need to be stringent.[312] Likewise, if both the meat and dairy are liquids, there is no need to be stringent even if both are uncovered.[313]]

Summary: It is proper to avoid placing meat and milk products near each other if they are both uncovered.

15. Using salt which was placed in a meat vessel for milk:[314]

• Michaber:

Permitted: It is permitted to use salt that was stored in a meat vessel for milk products.[315] [Likewise, one may place Issur foods near Heter even if both are uncovered.[316] This applies even if the salt had moisture.[317]]

• Rama and Admur[318]:

Blessing if avoid: Nevertheless, one who is stringent to avoid using this salt for the opposite food will be blessed, since there are those opinions who are initially stringent in this matter [as they rule that the salt has ability to extract taste from the vessel[319]]. [Practically, one is initially to avoid storing salt in meat or dairy vessels if he plans to use them for the opposite food, although Bedieved it is permitted.[320]]

• Taz:[321]

There is no blessing granted for being stringent to avoid using the salt for milk products. Nevertheless, those who have separate milk and meat vessels for salt are praised as at times one removes salt with dirty hands.[322]

Summary: It is permitted to use salt which was stored in a dairy vessel for meat products or vice versa and one who avoids doing so is blessed.. However, practically, one is initially to avoid storing salt in meat or dairy vessels if he plans to use them for the opposite food, although Bedieved it is permitted.

 

Compilation and Final Ruling on Dish Washing

Meat and milk utensils washed together simultaneously:^[323]

Cold or warm water below Yad Soledes: If one washed dairy and meat vessels simultaneously using cold water, or any water that is less than Yad Soledes, then everything remains Kosher even if the vessels were dirty with meat and dairy residue and were Ben Yomo. If, however, meat and dairy vessels soaked together in water for 24 hours, then if there was dairy and meat residue on the vessels, then everything is forbidden unless the water contains 60x versus the residue.^[324] If one is unsure whether the meat and milk remained together for 24 hours they are both permitted.^[325]

Hot Yad Soledes water in a Keli Sheiyni:^[326] If one heated water in a large pot over the fire and poured the water into a plugged sink and washed dairy and meat vessels simultaneously in the hot water that is in the sink, then everything remains Kosher [even if the vessels were dirty with meat and milk residue^[327] and are Ben Yomo, and even if the water is very hot]. [Nevertheless, Lechatchilah one is not wash meat and dairy dishes in any hot water that is Yad Soledes.^[328]]

Hot Yad Soledes water in a Keli Rishon-Both vessels contain leftover meat and milk:^[329] If dirty meat vessels and dirty dairy vessels which contain meat and dairy residue were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon, then all the vessels are forbidden [even with Pareve and hence must be Koshered^[330]]. [This applies even if the vessels were not Ben Yomo.^[331]] If, however, there is 60x in the water [and leftover meat/milk^[332]] versus the meat and milk residue, then everything is permitted [if the meat and dairy vessels were not both Ben Yomo^[333]]. [If there is 60x versus only one of food residues while the other food residue does not have 60x against it, then if the pot which has 60x its remnants is Ben Yomo, everything is forbidden. If, however, that pot is not Ben Yomo then that vessel alone is forbidden while everything else is permitted, as explained next.^[334] In general, we do not assume that there is 60x in the washing water versus the residue unless one knows for certain that there is.^[335] In general, we assume that vessels waiting to be washed are dirty with meat/dairy leftovers unless one states for certain that they were clean.^[336]]

Hot Yad Soledes water in a Keli Rishon-One vessel is dirty and the other is clean but Ben Yomo:^[337] If meat and dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon, and either the milk or meat utensil had dairy or meat residue on them [whether or not that vessel is Ben Yomo] and the other vessel is Ben Yomo, then all the vessels are forbidden unless there is 60x in the water versus the food residue that was on the dirty vessel.^[338] [In addition, according to the Rama, if both vessels are Ben Yomo the water must also have 60x versus one of the vessels, as explained in scenario 5.] Thus, for example, if clean Ben Yomo meat vessels and dirty dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon, everything is forbidden unless there is 60x.

Hot Yad Soledes water in a Keli Rishon-One vessel is dirty and the other is clean and is not Ben Yomo:^[339] If meat and dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon, and the meat vessel is dirty with meat residue [whether or not it is Ben Yomo] while the dairy vessel is clean and not Ben Yomo, then the meat vessel [and water] remain Kosher while the dairy vessel is forbidden [unless there is 60x in the water versus the leftover meat].^[340]

Hot Yad Soledes water in a Keli Rishon-If both the utensils were clean and at least one of them is not Ben Yomo:^[341] If meat and dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon and the meat and dairy vessels were known to be completely clean from meat and milk residue, then if at least one of the vessels is not Ben Yomo, whether this is the meat or milk vessel, then all the vessels remain Kosher.^[342] [However, Lechatchilah, one may not wash them together even if they are both clean and one is not Ben Yomo.] However, the water is initially forbidden to be drunk.^[343] [However, if both vessels are clean and both are not Ben Yomo, then seemingly it is even initially permitted to wash them together in hot water, and even the water remains permitted to be drunk.^[344]]

Hot Yad Soledes water in a Keli Rishon-If the utensils were all clean but were both Ben Yomo: If meat and dairy vessels were washed together in Yad Soledes water of a Keli Rishon and the meat and dairy vessels were known to be completely clean from meat and milk residue, then some Poskim^[345] rule that all the vessels remain Kosher even if both vessels were Ben Yomo.^[346] [Nevertheless, even according to this opinion, it is initially forbidden to wash them together if they are both Ben Yomo.^[347]] Other Poskim^[348], however, rule that even if both utensils were clean, if both were Ben Yomo, the entire mixture is forbidden, and all the vessels must be Koshered.^[349] [If, however, there is 60x in the water versus the dairy or meat vessel, then everything remains permitted.^[350]] Practically, the [Ashkenazi^[351]] custom is like this opinion and it is forbidden to swerve from the custom.[352] [However, the Sephardic ruling and custom follows the opinion of the Michaber to permit everything; the vessels and the water.^[353] However, one who is stringent to Kosher them, is blessed.^[354]]

Washed in a Keli Rishon one after the other:^[355] If meat and dairy vessels were washed in a hot Keli Rishon one after the other, then if one knows for certain that both of the vessels were clean from meat and milk residue, then even if both set of vessels were Ben Yomo, everything remains Kosher.^[356] [If, however, one of the vessels were dirty with meat or dairy residue, then if the first set of vessels was dirty the second set becomes forbidden, even if the second set was clean and not Ben Yomo [unless the water had 60x the food remnant of the first set]. If, however, the first set was clean and the second set was dirty, then everything remains permitted even if the first set was Ben Yomo.^[357]]

Poured hot Keli Rishon water onto clean meat and milk vessels:^[358] If one poured hot Pareve Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water onto meat and milk vessels, then if both meat and dairy vessels were clean, everything remains permitted even if these vessels were Ben Yomo.^[359] [However, regarding a case that one poured onto an Issur and Heter pot, some Poskim^[360] rule that everything is forbidden if the Issur pot was Ben Yomo. However, according to the Rama, the Heter pot would remain permitted.^[361]]

Poured hot Keli Rishon water onto dirty meat and milk vessels: If one poured hot Pareve Yad Soledes Keli Rishon water onto meat and dairy vessels which contain meat and dairy residue, some Poskim^[362] rule that nonetheless, everything remains permitted.^[363] [This applies even if the water poured does not contain 60x versus the residue.] However, other Poskim^[364] rule that everything is forbidden.^[365] [Practically, one may be lenient in a case of great loss.^[366] This applies even according to the Michaber and Sephardic ruling. If only one of the vessels had food remnants while the other was clean [whether or not it was Ben Yomo], then the clean vessel becomes forbidden.^[367] Likewise, if the water poured contains 60x versus a Kelipa’s worth of the residue of one of the vessels, then only that vessel is forbidden.^[368]]

 

 ___________________________________

[1] Chavas Daas 95:5; Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:4; Kaf Hachaim 95:23

[2] Rama 95:2; Implication of Aruch 24; Rashba 449; Admur 447:45; See also Michaber 103:6; Pischeiy Teshuvah 96:4

Other opinions-Ruling of Michaber: Some Poskim rule that according to the Michaber [mentioned in 96:1 regarding a knife which cut a Davar Charif that if it was not Ben Yomo it remains Pareve according to the first opinion then] if the pot was clean and not Ben Yomo, Bedieved if it was cooked with the opposite food it does not require nullification. [Hakashrus 10:113; See Kaf Hachaim 96:11] Other Poskim argue on the Rama’s conclusion based on Rashba and Aruch ibid and suggest that even according to the Rashba and Aruch who rule regarding a knife that Charif turns non-Ben Yomo into Ben Yomo, by a pot the rule is different and Charif does not make non-Ben Yomo into Ben Yomo. The reason is because the concept of Nat Bar Nat still applies even by Charif, and hence only when there are two Nats, such as by a knife, do we say the taste is Beiyn, however when there are three Nats, such as the case in the case of a pot, then it is permitted. Practically, this opinion concludes that by definite Charif one is to be stringent like the Rama while by questionable Charif one may be lenient. [Makom Shmuel 89, brought in Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:4]

Is the concept of a Davar Charif a Biblical or Rabbinical concept? See Chapter 96 Halacha 3 in Q&A!

[3] The reason: As the sharp food enriches the meaty taste of the pot and effects that its taste be considered Beiyn [direct taste from meat] and is thus no longer considered Nat Bar Nat. [Shach 95:7; Admur ibid that it becomes Tam Rishon]

[4] Admur 447:45

[5] Rama 95:2; Taz 103:9

[6] Taz 103:9; Darkei Teshuvah 95:41

[7] Toras Chatas 85:21; Halacha Pesuka 95:12; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:20; Kaf Hachaim 95:30

[8] See chapter 96 Halacha 5 in Q&A!

[9] Shach 122:2

[10] See Hakashrus 10:117

[11] Pleisi 96:4; Peri Megadim 96; Zivcheiy Tzedek 96:32; Kaf Hachaim 96:46

[12] Admur 447:27

[13] The reason: As it is considered that it was cooked in the vessel [Kavush Kemevushal], and when a Davar Charif is cooked in a meat vessel it is considered meaty even if it was not Ben Yomo. According to some opinions, even if it only stayed there for 18 minutes it is considered cooked in the vessel. According to others, it is considered cooked if it remained there for 24 hours. [See Admur 447:27 who writes 24 hours]

[14] Daas Torah 96:2

[15] Sefer Hakashrus 10:120

[16] Michaber 95:1

[17] Issur Viheter 33:2; Minchas Yaakov 57:11; P”M 95 S.D. 1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:11; Kaf Hachaim 95:13

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that we do not assume the food contains 60x the residue, unless one knows for certain. [Peri Toar 95:3]

[18] Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:11; Kaf Hachaim 95:14

[19] Shach 95:1; Kneses Hagedola 95:23; Peri Chadash 95:2; Minchas Yaakov 58:17; Admur 447:51; 452:7; Lechem Hapanim 95:1; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:1; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Beis Yitzchak 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:6; Kaf Hachaim 95:6

[20] Minchas Yaakov 57:11; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:13; Kaf Hachaim 95:16

[21] Implication of Peri Chadash 95:18; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:36; Kaf Hachaim 95:55;

[22] 95:1; See Chulin 111b; Beis Yosef 95 and Aruch Hashulchan 95:1-14 for all the opinions in Rishonim

[23] Michaber 95:1; Rambam Machalos Assuros 9:23; Rashi, brought in Tur 95:1[unlike understanding of Rivan]; Rabbeinu Tam; Riy Hazakein; Sefer Hateruma 61, and Rosh Chulin Kol Habasar 29, brought in Tur ibid regarding cooking [as opposed to roasting]

[24] Issur Viheter 34:1; Kneses Hagedola 95:2; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:2; Kaf Hachaim 95:7

[25] See Tur 95 and Beis Yosef 95:1 for opinions in Rishonim [Sefer Hateruma 61; Semak 213; Semag 140-141] who differentiate between cooked and roasted and rule that we permit only cooked foods and not roasted foods, as by cooked there are three Nat Bar Nat, while by roasted there are only two. However, the Beis Yosef ibid concludes that Lehalacha it is implied from the other Rishonim [Rambam; Rashi; Tosfos; Rashba; Ran] that there is no difference at all, and so he rules here in the Shulchan Aruch.

[26] A pot is assumed to be cleaned from any meat residue unless one knows for certain that it was not cleaned well. [Shach ibid]

[27] The reason and explanation: The meat taste that the Pareve food contains has traveled from the meat to the pot and then from the pot to the Pareve food. This is called Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. The reason that this meat taste is not considered problematic with dairy is because the meat taste which the Pareve food absorbed from the Ben Yomo pot is so indirect and diluted that it does not have sufficient intensity to merge with milk and cause a fusion of Basar Bechalav. [Taz 95:1; Kneses Hagedola 95:24 in name of many Poskim; Peri Chadash 95:3; Lechem Hapanim 95:2; Chochmas Adam 48:17; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:15; Kaf Hachaim 95:8]

[28] Rashal Kol Habasar 61; Erech Hashulchan 95:3

[29] Peri Chadash 95:3; Beis Ephraim Y.D. 37; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:7; Kaf Hachaim 95:9

[30] Shach 95:3; Taz 95:4; Admur 494:16; Rabbeinu Yerucham 15:28, brought [and negated] in Beis Yosef 95:1 in Bedek Habayis; Semak 213 and 198, brought in Beis Yosef ibid; Peri Chadash 95:1; Minchas Kohen 1:12; Lechem Hapanim 95:3; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:3; Kreisi 95:1; Erech Hashulchan 95:5; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:2; Ben Ish Chaiy Korach 13; Kaf Hachaim 95:1 and 21 that the Michaber ibid retracted from his ruling in the Beis Yosef which was written before his Shulchan Aruch [see Yad Melachi 15; Chida in Shem Hagedolim Sefarim 75], and therefore the ruling in Michaber ibid is written in the form of Bedieved; Rav Shalom Mashash in Mizrach Shemesh 95 and Shemesh Umagen 1:8; 2:42

[31] Devar Moshe Y.D. 9; Shulchan Gavoa 1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:3; Kaf Hachaim 95:2

[32] Beis Yosef 95:1 in Bedek Habayis, printed and his commentary on the Tur writes that one may even initially cook in the Ben Yomo pot with intent to eat with the opposite food [However, the Poskim ibid say the Beis Yosef retracted this ruling in his Shulchan Aruch and rules that it is only allowed Bedieved.]; Maharah Even Tava in Shut Tashbatz Chut Hameshulash, Hatur Hasheleshi 33; Beis David 42; Pnei David Papau 2; Beis Yehuda 2:92; Yabia Omer 4:4; 94; Rav Yitzchak Yosef

[33] Peri Chadash 95:1; Lechem Hapanim 95:3; Kreisi 95:1; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:5; Kaf Hachaim 95:5

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule it is forbidden to eat it with milk. [Minchas Kohen 1:12]

[34] Rama 95:2; Shach 95:3; Peri Chadash 95:4; Lechem Hapanim 95:4; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:3; Kreisi 95:4

[35] Rivan in name of Rashi; Issur Viheter Aruch Klal 34; Mordechai; Or Zarua; Rabbeinu Yerucham 15:28, brought in Beis Yosef [Bedek Habayis 95:1]

[36] The reason: The reason for why the Rama is stringent is because the Rama rules Nat Bar Nat Dihetera is initially forbidden.

[37] Kaf Hachaim 95:21; However, the custom of the Sephardim is like the opinion of Michaber

[38] Ruling of Admur: Admur in 494:16 rules that if one used a meat/dairy vessel [i.e. Marda] to remove bread from an oven then nevertheless the food remains Pareve and may be eaten with milk/meat, as it is Nat Bar Nat Dihetera, as explained in chapters 94 and 95. Vetzaruch Iyun, as here the Rama rules that it is forbidden to eat such food with meat as we hold that Nat Bar Nat is initially forbidden. Several suggestions have been offered into how to understand Admur: 1) Perhaps Admur’s case is an exception as when bread is placed on a meat/dairy vessel it is only penetrated a Kelipa’s worth. 2) The Rama ibid is only stringent by food that was cooked in a vessel, while Admur is referring to a vessel that contacted a food, which has a more lenient status as explained in Rama 95:2, brought in Halacha 4. 3) Perhaps Admur rules, unlike Shach, that even if both the food and vessel are hot, the food remains Pareve. 4) Perhaps Admur is referring to the letter of the law of why a decree should not be made to require one to use a Pareve Marda to remove the bread. [See Shaareiy Yoreh Deah p. 317; Piskeiy Admur Hazakein p. 194; Hearos Ubiurim Ohalei Torah 655 p. 25]

[39] Rama ibid; Semak; Aruch

[40] Peri Chadash 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:6; See opinions in Beis Yosef 95:1

[41] Rama ibid; Semak 213; Semag 140-141; Taz 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:8; Biur Hagra 95:8; Chulin 111b regarding fish

[42] Kaf Hachaim 95:24; See Chulin 111b that fish that were placed on a meat plate may be eaten with dairy, and this applies according to all opinions

[43] Shach 95:5 based on Rama 95:3; Kaf Hachaim 95:27

[44] So can be understood from Taz 95:13 who rules this way on Bedieved; Likewise, the Rama 95:3 simply states not to pour into a dairy vessel and does not stipulate whether its Ben Yomo or not. Likewise, Shach 95:5 also does not differentiate in this matter when discussing the stringent opinion of the Rama and implies that it may never be poured into any vessel, whether Ben Yomo or not. Hence certainly one should initially avoid the question.

[45] Michaber 94:9; Toras Chatas 57:12 that is permitted from letter of law; Shach 95:5 and 17; Peri Chadash 95:5; Issur Viheter; Bach 95:4; Masas Binyamin 2 “Whoever is stringent is doing a strange act”; Lechem Hapanim 95:7; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:5; Kreisi 95:5; Kaf Hachaim 95:27; 48

[46] Rama 95:3 explicitly prohibits Bedieved; Shach ibid that so is opinion of Rama here as well, unlike understanding of Bach ibid in Rama; However, Rama in Toras Chatas 57:12 rules one may be lenient in a time of need or great loss; So also concludes P”M 95 S.D. 5

[47] If also the dairy vessel was Ben Yomo then both the food and the dairy vessel would be forbidden, as rules the Rama in 95:3. However, the meat pot would remain permitted in all cases. [P”M 95 M.Z. 13]

[48] Taz 95:13; P”M 95 M”Z 13

Analysis on opinion of Rama: This ruling in Taz ibid in his opinion applies even according to the Rama as the Rama himself rules in the case of washing pots that if one is not Ben Yomo it is permitted, and thus certainly here. However, Tzaruch Iyun from the wording of the Rama ibid who simply states not to pour into a dairy vessel and does not stipulate whether its Ben Yomo or not. Likewise, Shach 95:5 also does not differentiate in this matter when discussing the stringent opinion of the Rama and implies that it may never be poured into any vessel, whether Ben Yomo or not. Now, why would the Rama possibly hold that there is a problem with the bottom vessel if it is not Ben Yomo if even he rules that when washing them in a Keli Rishon the non-Ben Yomo is Kosher? A suggestion could be that it is similar to the case in Rama 94:5 where one used a Ben Yomo spoon for a non-Ben Yomo pot and there the custom is to prohibit the non-Ben Yomo pot, even though from the letter of the law it is permitted, and perhaps the same applies here. Vetzaruch Iyun!

[49] Peri Chadash 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:9; See Beis Yosef 95:1

[50] P”M 95 M”Z 5

[51] See Kaf Hachaim 95:26; Chochmas Adam 48:2; Shaareiy Yoreh Deah

[52] Rashal Issur Viheter Shelo on Shaareiy Dura; Yam Shel Shlomo Kol Habasar 63, brought in Shach 95:4

[53] Peri Chadash 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:6

[54] Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:4 in name of Poskim

[55] Kaf Hachaim 95:22

[56] Admur 494:16

[57] Kaf Hachaim 95:22

[58] Chavas Daas 95:5; Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:4; Kaf Hachaim 95:23

[59] Taz 95:4

[60] Shaareiy Dura 60:3; Kneses Hagedola 95:26; P”M 93 S.D. 4; 94 M.Z. 1; 95 M.Z. 1; Chavas Daas 95:2; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:8; Kaf Hachaim 95:10

[61] Pnei Aryeh 48-49, brought in Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:1 and 97:4 and Kaf Hachaim 97:28 and 95:10

[62] Poskim ibid

[63] Kaf Hachaim 95:10 as so rule majority of Poskim

[64] P”M 95 M.Z. 1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:9; Kaf Hachaim 95:11; However, according to the dissenting opinion in the previous Q&A seemingly here too the pot remains Pareve. Practically, we rule like the former opinion as explained there.

[65] Chavas Daas 95 Biurim 1; Rav Akiva Eiger in Sefer Derush Vechidush, brought in Kaf Hachaim 95:12; Yad Yehuda Aruch 95:7; Darkei Teshuvah 95:7

[66] In other words, we do not say that we view the milk to have first entered the pot, and from the pot it entered the food, but rather we view it as if it fell directly into the food. [Poskim ibid]

[67] Beis Ephraim Y.D. 37; Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:1; Hagahos Maharshak on P”M 95; Tuv Taam Vadaas Telisa 169; Divrei Yosef 658; Shem Aryeh C.M. Hosafos 10; Imrei Baruch on Chavas Daas ibid;

[68] Kaf Hachaim 95:12

[69] The reason: As this is a case of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera meeting a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera and what precedent do we have anywhere to say that the Rama forbids initially even in such a case. The Rama’s stringency was discussing only a case of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with actual Taam! Furthermore, the Rama rules one may even initially eat the Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with Nat Bar Nat Deisura, as he rules one may eat it the Pareve food with a dairy vessel even if it is Ben Yomo! Likewise he rules one may wash clean Ben Yomo dishes one after the other in Keli Rishon [Vetzaruch Iyun if this is even Lechatchila in Rama] Thus, certainly he would be lenient in this case which involves a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera! Furthermore, based on above one can even enter one of the foods into another bowl and then enter it into the other food while still inside its Ben Yomo pot as then it is Nat Bar Nat Deissura meeting a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera which is similar to the case of the vessel. Vetzaruch Iyun!

[70] Rama 95:2

[71] The reason: The reason for this is because the taste of the pot is considered spoiled and is Nat Bar Nat and thus we are lenient even initially.

[72] Rashal Issur Viheter Shelo on Shaareiy Dura; Yam Shel Shlomo Kol Habasar 63, brought in Taz 95:4

[73] Devar Moshe Y.D. 9; Chochmas Adam 48:2

[74] Beis David Y.D. 42; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:4; Kaf Hachaim 95:3

[75] The reason: As in such a case we have two reasons for leniency; 1) The pot is not Ben Yomo 2) The meat taste is Nat Bar Nat. [Kaf Hachaim ibid]

[76] Zivcheiy Tzedek ibid; Kaf Hachaim ibid

[77] Chochmas Adam ibid; See Rama 89:3 and Shach there; Hakashrus 10:95

[78] Peri Chadash 95:1; Lechem Hapanim 95:3; Kreisi 95:1; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:5; Kaf Hachaim 95:5

[79] Chochmas Adam 48:1

[80] See Shulchan Gavoa 1; Kaf Hachaim 95:4

[81] Chavas Daas 95:5; Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:4; Kaf Hachaim 95:23

[82] Rama 95:2; Implication of Aruch 24; Rashba 449; See also Michaber 103:6

Other opinions & Ruling of Michaber: Some Poskim rule that according to the Michaber [mentioned in 96:1 regarding a knife which cut a Davar Charif that if it was not Ben Yomo it remains Pareve according to the first opinion then] if the pot was clean and not Ben Yomo, Bedieved if it was cooked with the opposite food it does not require nullification. [Hakashrus 10:113; See Kaf Hachaim 96:11] Other Poskim argue on the Rama’s conclusion based on Rashba and Aruch ibid and suggest that even according to the Rashba and Aruch who rule regarding a knife that Charif turns non-Ben Yomo into Ben Yomo, by a pot the rule is different and Charif does not make non-Ben Yomo into Ben Yomo. The reason is because the concept of Nat Bar Nat still applies even by Charif, and hence only when there are two Nats, such as by a knife, do we say the taste is Beiyn, however when there are three Nats, such as the case in the case of a pot, then it is permitted. Practically, this opinion concludes that by definite Charif one is to be stringent like the Rama while by questionable Charif one may be lenient. [Makom Shmuel 89, brought in Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:4]

Is the concept of a Davar Charif a Biblical or Rabbinical concept? See Chapter 96 Halacha 3 in Q&A!

[83] The reason: As the sharp food enriches the meaty taste of the pot and effects that its taste be considered Beiyn [direct taste from meat] and is thus no longer considered Nat Bar Nat. [Shach 95:7]

[84] Michaber 95:1

[85] This follows the ruling of Rama 95:2, however according to the Michaber, the food remains Pareve even if the pot was Ben Yomo, as explained next.

[86] Issur Viheter 33:2; Minchas Yaakov 57:11; P”M 95 S.D. 1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:11; Kaf Hachaim 95:13

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that we do not assume the food contains 60x the residue, unless one knows for certain. [Peri Toar 95:3]

[87] Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:11; Kaf Hachaim 95:14

[88] 95:1-2; See Chulin 111b; Beis Yosef 95 and Aruch Hashulchan 95:1-14 for all the opinions in Rishonim

[89] Michaber 95:1; Rambam Machalos Assuros 9:23; Rashi, brought in Tur 95:1 [unlike understanding of Rivan]; Rabbeinu Tam; Riy Hazakein; Sefer Hateruma 61, and Rosh Chulin Kol Habasar 29, brought in Tur ibid regarding cooking [as opposed to roasting]

According to the Michaber, may one initially cook Pareve foods in a meat vessel in order to eat with Milk? Even according to the Michaber, it is initially forbidden to cook Pareve food in a Ben Yomo meat pot with intention to eat that Pareve food with dairy products. [Admur 494:16; Shach 95:3; Taz 95:4; Rabbeinu Yerucham 15:28, brought [and negated] in Beis Yosef 95:1 in Bedek Habayis; Semak 213 and 198, brought in Beis Yosef ibid; Peri Chadash 95:1; Minchas Kohen 1:12; Lechem Hapanim 95:3; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:3; Kreisi 95:1; Erech Hashulchan 95:5; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:2; Ben Ish Chaiy Korach 13; Kaf Hachaim 95:1 and 21 that the Michaber ibid retracted from his ruling in the Beis Yosef which was written before his Shulchan Aruch [see Yad Melachi 15; Chida in Shem Hagedolim Sefarim 75], and therefore the ruling in Michaber ibid is written in the form of Bedieved; Rav Shalom Mashash in Mizrach Shemesh 95 and Shemesh Umagen 1:8; 2:42] Thus, one may not heat water in a Ben Yomo meat pot for the sake of kneading dough, as one often eats bread with dairy. [Devar Moshe Y.D. 9; Shulchan Gavoa 1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:3; Kaf Hachaim 95:2] The same applies vice versa. However, some Poskim  rule that according to the Michaber it is permitted to even initially cook Pareve foods in Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat with dairy. [Beis Yosef 95:1 in Bedek Habayis, printed and his commentary on the Tur, writes that one may even initially cook in the Ben Yomo pot with intent to eat with the opposite food [However, the Poskim ibid say the Beis Yosef retracted this ruling in his Shulchan Aruch and rules that it is only allowed Bedieved.]; Maharah Even Tava in Shut Tashbatz Chut Hameshulash, Hatur Hasheleshi 33; Beis David 42; Pnei David Papau 2; Beis Yehuda 2:92; Yabia Omer 4:4; 94; Rav Yitzchak Yosef] Even according to the first approach, if one already cooked the Pareve food in a Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat with dairy, he may go ahead and eat it with dairy. [Peri Chadash 95:1; Lechem Hapanim 95:3; Kreisi 95:1; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:5; Kaf Hachaim 95:5 unlike Minchas Kohen 1:12] 

[90] Issur Viheter 34:1; Kneses Hagedola 95:2; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:2; Kaf Hachaim 95:7

[91] See Tur 95 and Beis Yosef 95:1 for opinions in Rishonim [Sefer Hateruma 61; Semak 213; Semag 140-141] who differentiate between cooked and roasted and rule that we permit only cooked foods and not roasted foods, as by cooked there are three Nat Bar Nat, while by roasted there are only two. However, the Beis Yosef ibid concludes that Lehalacha it is implied from the other Rishonim [Rambam; Rashi; Tosfos] that there is no difference at all, and so he rules here in the Shulchan Aruch.

[92] A pot is assumed to be cleaned from any meat residue unless one knows for certain that it was not cleaned well. [Shach ibid]

[93] The reason and explanation: The meat taste that the Pareve food contains has traveled from the meat to the pot and then from the pot to the Pareve food. This is called Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. The reason that this meat taste is not considered problematic with dairy is because the meat taste which the Pareve food absorbed from the Ben Yomo pot is so indirect and diluted that it does not have sufficient intensity to merge with milk and cause a fusion of Basar Bechalav. [Taz 95:1; Kneses Hagedola 95:24 in name of many Poskim; Peri Chadash 95:3; Lechem Hapanim 95:2; Chochmas Adam 48:17; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:15; Kaf Hachaim 95:8]

[94] Opinion in Rama 95:2; Rivan in name of Rashi; Issur Viheter Aruch Klal 34 [brought in Darkei Moshe 95:1]; Mordechai; Or Zarua; Rabbeinu Yerucham 15:28, brought in Beis Yosef [Bedek Habayis 95:1]; Shach 95:3; Peri Chadash 95:4; Lechem Hapanim 95:4; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:3; Kreisi 95:4

[95] The reason: The reason for why the Rama is stringent is because the Rama rules Nat Bar Nat Dihetera is initially forbidden.

[96] Kaf Hachaim 95:21; However, the custom of the Sephardim is like the opinion of Michaber

[97] Rama ibid; Semak; Issur Viheter; Peri Chadash 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:6

Ruling of Admur: Admur in 494:16 rules that if one used a meat/dairy vessel [i.e. Marda] to remove bread from an oven then nevertheless the food remains Pareve and may be eaten with milk/meat, as it is Nat Bar Nat Dihetera, as explained in chapters 94 and 95. Vetzaruch Iyun, as here the Rama rules that it is forbidden to eat such food with meat as we hold that Nat Bar Nat is initially forbidden. Several suggestions have been offered into how to understand Admur: 1) Perhaps Admur’s case is an exception as when bread is placed on a meat/dairy vessel it is only penetrated a Kelipa’s worth. 2) The Rama ibid is only stringent by food that was cooked in a vessel, while Admur is referring to a vessel that contacted a food, which has a more lenient status as explained in Rama 95:2, brought in Halacha 4. 3) Perhaps Admur rules, unlike Shach, that even if both the food and vessel are hot, the food remains Pareve. 4) Perhaps Admur is referring to the letter of the law of why a decree should not be made to require one to use a Pareve Marda to remove the bread. [See Shaareiy Yoreh Deah p. 317; Piskeiy Admur Hazakein p. 194; Hearos Ubiurim Ohalei Torah 655 p. 25]

[98] Rama ibid; Semak; Aruch; Taz 95:4 that one who is lenient like the Rama has not lost out; Admur 494:16 [that we only suspect for Nat Bar Nat Lechatchila]; Peri Chadash 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:6

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that Pareve food which was roasted in a Ben Yomo meat pot, is forbidden to be eaten with milk products and even Bedieved the mixture is forbidden unless there is 60x versus in the milk versus the food. [Rashal Issur Viheter Shelo on Shaareiy Dura; Yam Shel Shlomo Kol Habasar 63, brought in Shach 95:4; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:4 in name of Poskim; Kaf Hachaim 95:22 concludes that one who is stringent like the Rashal in a case that does not involve a great loss, is blessed.] The above Poskim are only stringent regarding a roasted food. However, a food that is cooked in liquid inside of a meat pot, or a food that is roasted in a meat pot that is Ben Yomo from meat that was cooked in liquid, is permitted Bedieved if it became mixed with dairy. [Chavas Daas 95:5; Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:4; Kaf Hachaim 95:2]

[99] Peri Chadash 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:6; See opinions in Beis Yosef 95:1

[100] Rama ibid; Taz 95:5; Semak 213; Semag 140-141; Lechem Hapanim 95:8; Biur Hagra 95:8; See Chulin 111b that fish that were placed on a meat plate may be eaten with dairy, and this applies according to all opinions

May one even initially cook in a meat pot with intent to eat with a dairy vessel: Some Poskim  rule one may even initially cook Pareve food in a Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat the food with milk utensils. [Peri Chadash 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:9] Other Poskim, however, rule it is forbidden to do so unless it is a time of need. [P”M 95 M”Z 5; See Kaf Hachaim 95:26; Chochmas Adam 48:2; Shaareiy Yoreh Deah] See Beis Yosef 95:1

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that Pareve food which was roasted in a Ben Yomo meat pot, is initially forbidden to be eaten with milk utensils. [Taz 95:4 in understanding of Rashal ibid]

[101] Kaf Hachaim 95:24

[102] Shach 95:5 based on Rama 95:3; Kaf Hachaim 95:27

[103] Rama 95:2

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that initially one may not eat Pareve foods cooked in a non-Ben Yomo meat vessel together with milk. [Rashal Issur Viheter Shelo on Shaareiy Dura; Yam Shel Shlomo Kol Habasar 63, brought in Taz 95:4]

[104] The reason: The reason for this is because the taste of the pot is considered spoiled and is Nat Bar Nat and thus we are lenient even initially.

[105] Hakashrus 10:94

[106] Darkei Teshuvah 95:39

[107] Rama 95:2

[108] Darkei Teshuvah 95:40

[109] The reason: As this is a case of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera meeting a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera and what precedent do we have anywhere to say that the Rama forbids initially even in such a case. The Rama’s stringency was discussing only a case of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with actual Taam! Furthermore, the Rama rules one may even initially eat the Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with Nat Bar Nat Deisura, as he rules one may eat it the Pareve food with a dairy vessel even if it is Ben Yomo! Likewise he rules one may wash clean Ben Yomo dishes one after the other in Keli Rishon [Vetzaruch Iyun if this is even Lechatchila in Rama] Thus, certainly he would be lenient in this case which involves a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera! Furthermore, based on above one can even enter one of the foods into another bowl and then enter it into the other food while still inside its Ben Yomo pot as then it is Nat Bar Nat Deissura meeting a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera which is similar to the case of the vessel. Vetzaruch Iyun!

[110] Pleisi 96:4; Zivcheiy Tzedek 96:32; Kaf Hachaim 96:46

[111] The reason: As Charif does not have ability to resurrect the Nat Bar Nat taste in a food. [Poskim ibid] Seemingly this applies even according to the Rama who is initially stringent by Nat Bar Nat, as the Rama even initially permits eating the food with the opposite utensil.

[112] See Michaber 95:1; Taz Y.D. 95:3; Darkei Teshuvah 116:27; Halacha Berurah 173:9

[113] Taz 95:3; Michaber 116:2; Yad Avraham 95

Ruling of Michaber: The Michaber 95:1 rules that one may eat fish that was cooked with meat residue even if it does not contain 60x the residue, and if it does, then it may be eaten even with dairy. The Taz ibid explains that this is referring to the letter of the law regarding Kashrus and Nat Bar Nat, however, due to Sakana, in truth even the Michaber agrees that it is forbidden.

[114] Shach 116 in Nekudos Hakesef; Taz 116:2 in name of Mordechai and Or Zarua; Kneses Hagedola 116:21; Peri Chadash 116:4; Beis Lechem Yehuda 116:3; Shvus Yaakov 2:104; Erech Hashulchan 116:3; Chochmas Adam 68:1; Aruch Hashulchan 116:10; Kaf Hachaim 116:12

[115] Taz 116:2 in understanding of Darkei Moshe and Rashal; See Yad Avraham ibid

[116] Kaf Hachaim ibid as rule majority of Poskim

[117] Implication of Michaber 95:1 and Chulin 111a “One who roasts fish in a meat pot may eat it”; Taz 95:3 “One can learn from here that there is no danger in eating fish that contains the taste of meat through being cooked in a Ben Yomo pot of meat”; Issur Viheter 39:26 “All secretion of taste of meat that is absorbed in a vessel into fish is not Bedieved forbidden due to danger”; Rashal Kol Habasar 9; Kneses Hagedola 116:18; Minchas Yaakov 57:1 concludes “The custom is to be lenient [even initially-Kaf Hachaim 116:20] if the pot is clean”; Peri Megadim 95 M.Z. 3 defends the ruling of the Taz ibid; Lechem Hapanim 116:3; Beis Lechem Yehuda 116:4; Chochmas Adam 68:1; Eidos Biyihosef 2:46; Divrei Hillel 2:32; Daltei Teshuvah 95:5; Ikareiy Hadat Y.D. 14:10; Zechor Leavraham 3:186; Darkei Teshuvah 116:27; Kaf Hachaim 116:20; Sheivet Halevi 6:111 writes it is the custom of the world to be lenient.

The reason: As the danger of eating fish with meat only applies if it contains substance of the meat, and does not apply towards the indirect taste transferred through a pot. [Taz ibid; Issur Viheter ibid]

The proof: As the Gemara Chulin ibid discusses the law of fish that was cooked in a meat pot and whether it may be eaten with dairy, thus proving that regarding Sakana there is no issue. [Issur Viheter ibid, brought in Taz ibid]

[118] Tur 116:2 “Some are stringent to designate vessels for fish” [brought in Chochmas Adam 68:1, Omitted from Michaber 116:2]; Rashal Chulin 7:15, as understood by Minchas Yaakov 57:1, that it is forbidden to eat it [brought in Derisha 116:5; Taz ibid; P”M ibid; However, see P”M ibid who vehemently negates this understanding of Rashal concluding “I wonder at this great Rav , as seemingly he did not look at the words of the Rashal”]; See Issur Viheter ibid who implies that it is only permitted Bedieved

[119] The reason: As the danger of meat and fish applies even by mere taste that is transferred through a pot. Now, although the Gemara and Michaber ibid write that it is permitted to eat fish cooked in a meat pot, that is referring to the laws of meat and milk, as in truth due to Sakana, it is forbidden. [See Rashal ibid; Taz ibid in his initial explanation]

[120] Minchas Yaakov ibid; Chut Hashani 67; Sheivet Haleivi ibid “The custom of the world is to do so”; Halacha Berurah ibid

[121] Sheivet Halevi ibid

[122] See Tur ibid; Minchas Yaakov ibid

^[123] Daltei Teshuvah 95:5 and other Poskim brought in Darkei Teshuvah 116:27; Hakashrus page 425

[124] The reason: As a Davar Charif that is cooked in a meat pan carries the actual taste of the meat, and the meat is considered Beiyn.

[125] Conclusion of Darkei Teshuvah ibid “Pashut there is no need to be stringent in this”; Sheivet Halevi ibid; Darkei Teshuvah ibid in name of Megadim Chadashim that from the letter of the law one may be lenient like the opinion who does not consider onions Charif

The reason: As only the actual taste from a piece of meat is a Sakana to eat with fish, however, the taste of meat that is carried in a Davar Charif, even though its Beiyn, is not problematic regarding Sakana. [ibid]

^[126] Darkei Teshuvah 116:27 in name of Megadim Chadashim 116:3 to initially be stringent; See Poskim in Darkei Teshuvah ibid regarding cooking a Davar Charif in a meat pot with fish; Hakashrus 10:111 [page 425]

[127] The reason: As a Davar Charif that is cut with a knife carries the actual taste of the meat, and the meat is considered Beiyn.

[128] Sheivet Halevi ibid; Darkei Teshuvah ibid in name of Megadim Chadashim that from the letter of the law one may be lenient like the opinion who does not consider onions Charif

The reason: As only the actual taste from a piece of meat is a Sakana o eat with fish, however, the taste of meat that is carried in a Davar Charif, even though its Beiyn, is not problematic regarding Sakana. [ibid]

[129] 95:2

[130] Shach 95:2 Chavas Daas 95:3; P”M 95 S.D. 2; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:16; Kaf Hachaim 95:18

[131] Michaber ibid; Beis Yosef 95 in name of Rashba

The reason: As this is a classical case of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera, similar to the fish case discussed in 95:1. [Beis Yosef ibid]

[132] Shach 95:2 Chavas Daas 95:3; P”M 95 S.D. 2; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:16; Kaf Hachaim 95:18

[133] The reason: The reason for this is because egg shells contain pours which allows the meat taste to penetrate, as can be seen from the fact an egg changes colors when cooked in dye. [Beis Yosef 95 in name of Rashba; Taz 95:2] Alternatively, eggshells do not contain pours but nonetheless absorb being that their shell is thin and allows meat taste to penetrate and leave. [Taz 95:2 although in conclusion he does not disagree with the Rashba’s holy words.]

[134] Rama 95:2; See Admur 494:16 regarding hot bread that was removed from an oven with a dairy vessel [i.e. Marda] that the food nevertheless remains Pareve and may be eaten with either milk or meat; See Chulin 111b; Beis Yosef 95 and Aruch Hashulchan 95:1-14 for all the opinions in Rishonim

[135] Rama 95:2 as explained in Shach 95:6; Peri Chadash 95:8; Lechem Hapanim 95:10; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:7; Kreisi 95:6; P”M 95 S.D. 6; Chavas Daas 95:7; Kaf Hachaim 95:28

Contradiction from 94:8 and 105:3: Regarding how the ruling here does not contradict the ruling of Michaber in 105:3 [and Admur 451:56] that Tatah Gavar applies by vessels and hence if the vessel is hot, the entire Pareve, or at least a Netila’s worth, should become dairy or meaty, seemingly this is because by meat and milk it is a case of Nat Bar Nat, and hence even according to the Rama we are more lenient. Another suggestion is that in truth, the taste which is transferred when either the food or plate is cold is not the “Ikkur Hataam” and hence is not potent enough to deem the Pareve as dairy or meaty. [See P”M 95 S.D. 6 who answers the contradiction this way; See Kreisi 95:6 who brings this contradiction]

[136] The reason: As the milk taste that has entered into the bread is Nat bar Nat Dihetera. [Admur ibid]

[137] Rama 95:2 as explained in Shach 95:6; Admur 494:16; Peri Chadash 95:8; Lechem Hapanim 95:10; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:7; Kreisi 95:6; P”M 95 S.D. 6; Chavas Daas 95:7; Kaf Hachaim 95:28

Contradiction from 94:8: Regarding how the ruling here does not contradict the ruling of Michaber in 94:8 that that if hot Issur/cheese fell onto a Ben Yomo vessel,  the cheese is forbidden a Kelipa’s worth, and hence here too the Pareve should become dairy or meaty at least a Kelipa’s worth, seemingly this is because by meat and milk it is a case of Nat Bar Nat, and hence even according to the Rama we are more lenient. Another suggestion is that in truth, the taste which is transferred when either the food or plate is cold is not the “Ikkur Hataam” and hence is not potent enough to deem the Pareve as dairy or meaty. [See P”M 95 S.D. 6 who answers the contradiction this way; See Kreisi 95:6 who brings this contradiction]

[138] Shach 95:6; Peri Chadash 95:8; Lechem Hapanim 95:10; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:7; Kreisi 95:6 [see there for contradiction in Shach from 94:33]; P”M 95 S.D. 6; Chavas Daas 95:7; Kaf Hachaim 95:28

Opinion of Admur: Admur 494:16 rules regarding hot bread that was removed from an oven with a dairy vessel [i.e. Marda] that the food nevertheless remains Pareve and may be eaten with either milk or meat as it is Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. This implies that even if both the vessel and food are hot it remains Pareve. [See Piskeiy Yoreh Deah p. 193]

[139] Such as if it had been removed from the fire.

[140] P”M 95 S.D. 5; Kaf Hachaim 95:28

[141] Taz 95:4; Admur 494:16 that Lechatchilah one may not remove the bread with a Ben Yomo dairy utensil if one knows he will be eating it with meat.

[142] The reason: As it is forbidden to initially cause Nat Bar Nat. [Admur ibid]

[143] Michaber 95:3

[144] See Chapter 94 Halacha 2 regarding the exact definition of Ben Yomo

[145] Michaber 105:1; See Chapter 92 Halacha 12

[146] Rama 105:1; See Chapter 92 Halacha 12

^[147] Shach 105:2; 69:10; Taz 105:1; Admur 447:28; 451:63

Other opinions: Some Poskim are stringent that we do not say the vessel becomes non-Ben Yomo if soaked for 24 hours. [Issur Viheter Klal 2:20 brought in Taz ibid] However, perhaps in this case of Nat Bar Nat they would agree to be lenient.

[148] 95:3

[149] Michaber 95:3; Shach 95:1; Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34

[150] P”M 95 S.D. 10; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:27; Kaf Hachaim 95:36

[151] Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34

[152] Minchas Yaakov 57:16; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:28; Kaf Hachaim 95:37 that the leftover meat joins the water to nullify the milk residue in 60x and the leftover milk joins the water to nullify the meat residue in 60x, as Issurim join to nullify each other. [See Michaber 98:9]

[153] This follows the ruling of the Rama in scenario 5, however according to the Michaber there it applies even if both vessels are Ben Yomo.

[154] Based on Shach 95:10, as explained in Scenario 2.

[155] Issur Viheter 34:17; Minchas Yaakov 57:18; P”M 95 S.D. 1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:12; Kaf Hachaim 95:15

[156] Michaber 95:3; Shach 95:1; Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34

[157] Shach 95:10; Peri Chadash 95:13; Lechem Hapanim 95:16; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:10; Kreisi 95:8; Chavas Daas 95:12; P”M 95 S.D. 10; Chochmas Adam 48:8-9; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:25; Kaf Hachaim 95:35

[158] The reason: The reason if even one of the utensils were dirty with food while the other is Ben Yomo, that the entire mixture becomes forbidden is because this is a case of Nat Bar Nat Deissura, as the indirect taste of the meat utensil directly fuses with the dairy water and becomes Basar Bechalav. Only when indirect taste enters into a Pareve item do we say that it does not have the power to later on fuse into Basar Bechalav, in contrast to if it enters into dairy water. Alternatively, the residue directly touches the Ben Yomo vessel, and makes it forbidden, and it in turn forbids the water and all the other vessels. [Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34]

[159] Shach 95:10; Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34

[160] The reason: The meat vessel remains permitted as there is no Ben Yomo taste of milk in the water to prohibit it. However, the dairy vessels are forbidden, as they received direct taste of meat. [Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34]

[161] Rama 95:3

[162] The reason: As the water only contain fresh taste of either meat or milk, and hence does not become forbidden and cannot forbid other vessels. Even the non-Ben Yomo vessel remains permitted as it received the Ben Yomo taste of the opposite food through the water, thus making it a case of Nat Bar Nat. [Taz 95:9; Peri Chadash 95:14; Lechem Hapanim 95:17 and 19; Chavas Daas 95:15; Chochmas Adam 48:10; Kaf Hachaim 95:39 and 42]

Contradiction from Rama 94:5: Vetzaruch Iyun from Rama 94:5 in which he rules that whenever one placed a non-Ben Yomo into a Ben Yomo we are stringent to forbid the non-Ben Yomo vessel. In truth, however, this is because in that case the food is forbidden to be eaten with the food type of the non-Ben Yomo vessel. This hence forms Maaras Ayin for the onlooker who then sees one using the non-Ben Yomo vessel for its same food type. Therefore, in that case we are stringent to forbid the vessel. In this case, however, since there is no food involved which is receiving restrictions, therefore, there is no Maras Ayin apparent. [Taz 95:9]

[163] Rama ibid

The reason: As the water has absorbed a Pagum mixture of meat and milk and being that water is so easily attainable, the water has a Lechatchilah status which prohibits Pagum and hence may not be consumed. [Shach 95:14; Toras Chatas 57:14 in name of Issur Viheter] However, from the letter of the law, the water may be drunk plain or with the food type of the Ben Yomo vessel, although not with the food type of the non-Ben Yomo type. [Shach 95:14; Peri Chadash 95:16; Lechem Hapanim 95:20; Chochmas Adam 48:11; Kaf Hachaim 95:43]

[164] See Halacha 1D in Q&A regarding initially cooking Pareve in a non-Ben Yomo vessel with intent to eat with dairy that some Poskim rule it is allowed, and so would apply in this case even more so, and perhaps according to all, as the discussion is Nat Bar Nat of a vessel and not of a food. So is also proven from the allowance to Kosher meat and dairy vessels together if they are not Ben Yomo.

[165] Michaber 95:3

[166] The reason: as this mixture is a mixture of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. [Michaber ibid] The Michaber rules that Nat Bar Nat which meets Nat Bar Nat simultaneously does not have the power to create a prohibition of Basar Bechalav, and is hence defined as Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. If, however, Nat Bar Nat meets Nat [such as one placed a dairy Ben Yomo spoon into chicken soup] then it is forbidden even according to Michaber as it is a case of Nat Bar Nat Deissura.

[167] Shach 95:9; Peri Chadash 95:11; Lechem Hapanim 95:15; Chavas Daas 95:11; P”M 95 S.D. 9; Erech Hashulchan 95:13; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:23; Kaf Hachaim 95:33; However see Halacha 1C for opinions who rule it is permitted even initially

[168] Poskim in next footnote; Birkeiy Yosef 95 Shiyurei Bracha 3 in name of Beis Yehuda; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:30 and Kaf Hachaim 94:49 and 95:45 that so is the Sephardic custom

[169] Kneses Hagedola 95:37; Maharanach 2:68; Mahramit 122; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:29; Kaf Hachaim 95:38 as many Poskim are stringent like Rama

[170] Tur 95 in name of Sefer Hateruma; Smak; Smag and Hagahos Shaareiy Dura

[171] However, the Sephardic custom is to permit everything. [Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:30 and Kaf Hachaim 94:49 and 95:45]

[172] The reason: As the vessel which has 60x against itself is only receiving Nat Bar Nat Dihetera of the opposite taste.

[173] Shach 95:5 and 12; Taz 95:8

[174] Rama 95:3

[175] Implication of Rama ibid and is Kal Vachomer from his ruling by Iruiy; Taz 95:12; Lechem Hapanim 95:22; Kaf Hachaim 95:47

The reason: As a Keli Sheiyni does not have ability to transfer taste. [Poskim ibid; See Chapter 91 Halacha 5A]

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that if the vessels were dirty with food, then the vessels are forbidden. [Rashal Kol Habasar 64, brought in Taz 95:12; See Chapter 91 Halacha 5A]

[176] The reason: As there are Poskim who rule that a Keli Sheiyni can cook, as explained in the previous footnote, and many Poskim suspect for their opinion, as brought in Chapter 91 Halacha 5A in footnotes.

[177] Seemingly is permitted even according to Rama as the Rama permits placing Nat Bar Nat Dihetera onto Ben Yomo milk vessel

[178] Seemingly is permitted even Lechatchila Kol Shekein from previous case] and possibly this would be Mutar even according to Rashal. Vetzaruch Iyun

[179] Rama 95:3

[180] Rama 95:3

[181] The reason: This is because the taste in the water is Nat Bar Nat Dihetera, of which the Rama rules Bedieved it is permitted. [Taz 95:11; Shach 95:16; Lechem Hapanim 95:23; Kaf Hachaim 95:46] This means the following: When the pots are within hot water simultaneously, the absorbed taste of each pot enters into the water, causing each taste to meet the other taste as it enters into the water. According to the Rama this is considered Nat Bar Nat Deisura and hence everything is forbidden. If, however, they are placed in one after the other, then since when the taste of the first pot entered the water it did not meet any other taste, it is considered Nat Bar Nat Diheteira of which the Rama rules Bedieved is allowed, and hence the second set of vessels are permitted.

[182] The reason: As the absorbed taste of the first set of dishes has already become Nat Bar Nat Dihetera and cannot even join with Mamashus of food to now become Issur.

[183] 95:3

[184] Definition of Nifsak Hakiluach: If the flow of liquid from the pot was no longer attached to the pot by the time it contacted the second pot, then this is defined as Nifsak Hakiluach. If the flow of liquid from the Keli Rishon was still attached to the pot by the time it contacted the vessel, then this is defined as Lo Nifsak Hakiluach.

[185] See Rama 95:3 regarding Keli Sheiyni

[186] Minchas Yaakov 57:24; Rashal Gid Hanashe 37; Implication of Kneses Hagedola 95:54 in name of Masa Binyamin; Peri Megadim 95 M.Z. 13; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:32; Kaf Hachaim 95:50

[187] The reason: As we do not say Nitzuk is Chibur regarding Issur and Heter, to consider it as if the dairy and meat vessel were washed together. [Poskim ibid; See Rama 105:3 in name of Issur Viheter]

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that we do say Nitzuk Chibur and hence even the upper food is forbidden Bedieved. [Kanfei Yona based on Rashal Gid Hanashe 37, brought in Darkei Teshuvah 105:96]

[188] Michaber 94:8; See Chapter 94 Halacha 10

[189] See P”M 92 S.D. 34; Yad Avraham 92; Degul Merivava 92:7; Yad Yehuda 92:48 and 64; Poskim brought in Darkei Teshuvah 68:58 and 105:64; It is implied from the above Poskim ibid that this applies even by Basar Bechalav; See Poskim brought in chapter 91 Halacha 5 and chapter 92 Halacha 8 in Q&A who rule that even Nifsak Hakiluach can absorb.

[190] Michaber 94:9

[191] The reason: As the taste in the Pareve food is Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. [Michaber ibid]

[192] Rama 95:3

[193] Taz 95:13

[194] Rama 95:3 says that it is forbidden.

The reason: As the stream connects both pots and considers it as if they were cooked together. [Taz 95:13]

Regarding other vessels that the food spilled onto: Shach 95:18 explains that only the pot in which the food fell on is Treif and not any other vessels which touches the food. However, the Peri Megadim 95 S.D. 18 explains that this only applies if Nifsak Hakiluach. Se Halacha E!

[195] Minchas Yaakov 57:24; Rashal Gid Hanashe 37; Implication of Kneses Hagedola 95:54 in name of Masas Binyamin; Peri Megadim 95 M.Z. 13; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:32; Kaf Hachaim 95:50

The reason: As we do not say Nitzuk is Chibur regarding Issur and Heter, to consider it as if the dairy and meat vessel were washed together. [Poskim ibid]

[196] Shach 95:5 and 17

[197] Toras Chatas 57:12 that is permitted from letter of law, although custom is to be stringent unless time of need; Peri Chadash 95:5; Issur Viheter; Bach 95:4; Masas Binyamin 2 “Whoever is stringent is doing a strange act”; Lechem Hapanim 95:7; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:5; Kreisi 95:5; P”M 95 S.D. 5 concludes one may be lenient in a case of great loss or need; Kaf Hachaim 95:27; 48; See Admur 447:45 and Piskeiy Yoreh Deah 95

[198] Toras Chatas 57:12

[199] P”M 95 M”Z 13; See Rama 92:7

[200] The reason: As Nifsak Hakiluach has the status of a Keli Sheiyni. Now, although some Poskim rule that Nifsak Hakiluach can still penetrate taste into a vessel, here regarding Nat Bar Nat we are certainly lenient. [See P”M ibid]

[201] Taz 95:13

Analysis on opinion of Rama: This ruling in Taz ibid, in his opinion applies even according to the Rama, as the Rama himself rules in the case of washing pots that if one is not Ben Yomo it is permitted, and thus certainly here. However, Tzaruch Iyun from the wording of the Rama ibid who simply states not to pour into a dairy vessel and does not stipulate whether its Ben Yomo or not. Likewise, Shach 95:5 also does not differentiate in this matter when discussing the stringent opinion of the Rama and implies that it may never be poured into any vessel, whether Ben Yomo or not. Now, why would the Rama possibly hold that there is a problem with the bottom vessel if it is not Ben Yomo if even he rules that when washing them in a Keli Rishon the non-Ben Yomo is Kosher? A suggestion could be that it is similar to the case in Rama 94:5 where one used a Ben Yomo spoon for a non-Ben Yomo pot and there the custom is to prohibit the non-Ben Yomo pot, even though from the letter of the law it is permitted, and perhaps the same applies here. Vetzaruch Iyun!

[202] The reason: As this is no worse than if a dairy and meat pot were washed together in Pareve Keli Rishon, in which even the Rama 95:3 agrees that if one of the pots were not Ben Yomo, everything is permitted. [Taz ibid]

[203] Peri Megadim 95 M.Z. 13

[204] So can be understood from Taz ibid who rules this way on a Bedieved case; Likewise, see previous footnotes regarding analysis of opinion of Rama ibid, and hence certainly one should initially avoid the question.

The reason: As perhaps we are stringent regarding Nitzuk Chibur even if the pot is non-Ben Yomo. 

[205] Shach 95:18; Toras Chatas 57:12 in name of Issur Viheter; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:13; Chavas Daas 95:18; Kaf Hachaim 95:49

[206] P”M 95 S.D. 18; Kaf Hachaim ibid

[207] 95:3

[208] Minchas Yaakov 57:24; Rashal Gid Hanashe 37; Implication of Kneses Hagedola 95:54 in name of Masa Binyamin; Peri Megadim 95 M.Z. 13; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:32; Kaf Hachaim 95:50

[209] The reason: As we do not say Nitzuk is Chibur regarding Issur and Heter, to consider it as if the dairy and meat vessel were washed together. [Poskim ibid]

[210] Michaber 94:8; See Chapter 94 Halacha 10

[211] See P”M 92 S.D. 34; Yad Avraham 92; Degul Merivava 92:7; Yad Yehuda 92:48 and 64; Poskim brought in Darkei Teshuvah 68:58 and 105:64; It is implied from the above Poskim ibid that this applies even by Basar Bechalav; See Poskim brought in chapter 91 Halacha 5 and chapter 92 Halacha 8 in Q&A who rule that even Nifsak Hakiluach can absorb.

[212] Michaber 94:9; Shach 95:5 and 17; Toras Chatas 57:12 that is permitted from letter of law, although the custom is to be stringent unless time of need; Peri Chadash 95:5; Issur Viheter; Bach 95:4; Masas Binyamin 2 “Whoever is stringent is doing a strange act”; Lechem Hapanim 95:7; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:5; Kreisi 95:5; Kaf Hachaim 95:27; 48; See Admur 447:45 and Piskeiy Yoreh Deah 95

[213] The reason: As the taste in the Pareve food is Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. [Michaber ibid]

[214] Rama 95:3; Taz 95:13; Chavas Daas 95:10; Toras Chatas 57:12 that is permitted from letter of law, although custom is to be stringent unless time of need;

[215] Rama 95:3 says that it is forbidden.

The reason: As the stream connects both pots and considers it as if they were cooked together. [Taz 95:13] Alternatively, this is due to a mere stringency. [Chavas Daas ibid]

Regarding other vessels that the food spilled onto: Shach 95:18 explains that only the pot in which the food fell on is Treif and not any other vessels which touches the food. However, the Peri Megadim 95 S.D. 18 explains that this only applies if Nifsak Hakiluach. Se Halacha E!

[216] Minchas Yaakov 57:24; Rashal Gid Hanashe 37; Implication of Kneses Hagedola 95:54 in name of Masa Binyamin; Peri Megadim 95 M.Z. 13; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:32; Kaf Hachaim 95:50

The reason: As we do not say Nitzuk is Chibur regarding Issur and Heter, to consider it as if the dairy and meat vessel were washed together. [Poskim ibid]

[217] P”M 95 S.D. 5; Toras Chatas 57:12

[218] P”M 95 M”Z 13; See Rama 92:7

The reason: As Nifsak Hakiluach has the status of a Keli Sheiyni. Now, although some Poskim rule that Nifsak Hakiluach can still penetrate taste into a vessel, here regarding Nat Bar Nat we are certainly lenient. [See P”M ibid]

[219] Taz 95:13

Analysis on opinion of Rama: This ruling in Taz ibid, in his opinion applies even according to the Rama, as the Rama himself rules in the case of washing pots that if one is not Ben Yomo it is permitted, and thus certainly here. However, Tzaruch Iyun from the wording of the Rama ibid who simply states not to pour into a dairy vessel and does not stipulate whether its Ben Yomo or not. Likewise, Shach 95:5 also does not differentiate in this matter when discussing the stringent opinion of the Rama and implies that it may never be poured into any vessel, whether Ben Yomo or not. Now, why would the Rama possibly hold that there is a problem with the bottom vessel if it is not Ben Yomo if even he rules that when washing them in a Keli Rishon the non-Ben Yomo is Kosher? A suggestion could be that it is similar to the case in Rama 94:5 where one used a Ben Yomo spoon for a non-Ben Yomo pot and there the custom is to prohibit the non-Ben Yomo pot, even though from the letter of the law it is permitted, and perhaps the same applies here. Vetzaruch Iyun!

[220] The reason: As this is no worse than if a dairy and meat pot were washed together in Pareve Keli Rishon, in which even the Rama 95:3 agrees that if one of the pots were not Ben Yomo, everything is permitted. [Taz ibid]

[221] Peri Megadim 95 M.Z. 13

[222] So can be understood from Taz ibid who rules this way on a Bedieved case; Likewise, see previous footnotes regarding analysis of opinion of Rama ibid, and hence certainly one should initially avoid the question.

The reason: As perhaps we are stringent regarding Nitzuk Chibur even if the pot is non-Ben Yomo. 

[223] See Otzros Yerushalayim p. 161-174 for a thorough article on this subject!

[224] Rama 105:3 in name of Issur Viheter

[225] Seemingly this applies even if one plans to spill all the food into the Issur, as nevertheless initially we suspect that the pot absorbs non-Kosher taste.

The reason: The reason for this is because the vapor of the hot Issur becomes absorbed within the food that is in the Kosher vessel. [Shach 105:11] Alternatively, the reason is because the stream of the Kosher food connects with the Issur food and we apply the rule of Tatah Gavar.  [Taz 105:6; However the Peri Megadim 105 M.Z. 6 writes that these two reasons are really one and the same, as the vapor is able to travel due to the connected stream. Likewise, Admur 451:59 upon recording this ruling connects the two reasons into one. ]

[226] Some Poskim  rule that the above leniency of the Rama applies only in the example given by the Rama which is discussing an Issur candle, as a small flame does not give off much Issur. However, if one poured Heter into an actual Issur food which is hot, then even Bedieved the food that remains in the pot is forbidden, [as rules the Rama in 92/8], as the hot steam of the Issur penetrates into the Heter. If, however, one poured from a distance in a way that the steam is no longer Yad Soledes by the time it touches the Heter, then according to all, Bedieved the remaining food is permitted. [Yad Avraham 105] If, however, the upper Heter food itself is Yad Soledes, some Poskim  rule write the steam has the ability to prohibit the food even if the steam itself is no longer Yad Soledes. [Rama 92:8]

[227] Rama ibid; Issur Viheter ibid; Chavas Daas 91:6; Admur 451:59 rules [only] regarding Chametz that the women are accustomed not to use the vessel which was used to pour onto a Chametz vessel, thus implying that by other Issurim everything remains Kosher, and even by Chametz it’s a mere stringency of the woman; See Minchas Yaakov 57:24; Rashal Gid Hanashe 37; Implication of Kneses Hagedola 95:54 in name of Masa Binyamin; Peri Megadim 95 M.Z. 13; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:32; Kaf Hachaim 95:50

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that we do say Nitzuk Chibur and hence even the upper food is forbidden Bedieved. [Kanfei Yona based on Rashal Gid Hanashe 37, brought in Darkei Teshuvah 105:96]

[228] See Otzros Yerushalayim p. 171

[229] Rav Chaim Yehuda Cohen in Otzros Yerushalayim p. 171

[230] The reason: As Pareve is always judged as Lechatchila, and hence since it can still be eaten, although with a limitation, therefore one is to be stringent not to eat it with the opposite food.

[231] See Darkei Teshuva 105:96; Shabbos Kihalacha Vol. 1 page 393 [chapter 9:41]

[232] Kreisy Upleisy 105:8; Chochmas Adam Klal 59:4; Shabbos Kehalacha ibid

[233] See Rama 92:8 and Rav Akiva Eiger there

[234] Kanfei Yonah brought in Darkei Teshuvah ibid; Yad Yehuda Hakatzar 31; See Peri Megadim 105 M.Z. 6.

Opinion of Admur: In 451:59 Admur rules that women are accustomed not to use for Pesach the urn they pour from in order to Kasher an item, being that the steam of the Chametz vessel which is being Kashered becomes absorbed in the vessel. This implies that Admur is stringent even when pouring hot onto hot. [See Piskeiy Admur p. 330] Vetzaruch Iyun if anything can be deduced from that law as Admur writes only “there is an opinion which explains”, as well as it is merely a custom, as well as the upper vessel certainly should be permitted, as Bedieved we do not hold taste is transferred. Thus one must conclude that it is a Pesach stringency that is not relevant to other Issurim, and so writes Shabbos Kehalacha ibid, as is also evident from Darkei Teshuvah 105:99

[235] Implication of Peri Megadim 105 M.Z. 6 that this may be done even initially and the food remaining in the Heter pot remains Kosher, as Tatah Gavar; See Kanfei Yona , brought in Darkei Teshuvah 105:96; So concludes Otzros Yerushalayim p. 174

[236] See Admur 451:59 which is discussing pouring hot onto cold

[237] See Admur ibid

[238] Rama 95:3

[239] Shach 95:19; Lechem Hapanim 95:27; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:15; Kaf Hachaim 95:51

[240] Rama 95:3; Shach 95:20

[241] The reason: According to the Rama, the reason is because the pouring of a Keli Rishon does not have the ability to cause the taste absorbed in the pots to come out. [Rama ibid] According to the Shach ibid, it is permitted because it is Nat Bar Nat and is a case of Iruiy Keli Rishon. [Shach ibid;]

[242] Shach 95:20; Kneses Hagedola 95:53; Minchas Yaakov 57:23; Peri Chadash 95:17; Kreisi 95:11; Lechem Hapanim 95:22; Chavas Daas 95:19; P”M 97 S.D. 20; Kaf Hachaim 95:47 and 52

[243] As according to the Rama, Iruiy Keli Rishon does not have the ability to remove taste from one pot and transfer it to another

[244] See Igros Moshe Y.D. 2:42 in great length for a Halachic analysis on the power of pouring from a Keli Rishon.

[245] Rama 95:3

[246] The reason: As the pouring of a Keli Rishon does not have the same ability as does a Keli Rishon to cause the pots to absorb from each other. [Rama ibid]

[247] Shach 95:20

[248] Taz 95:12

[249] Rashal Kol Habasar 64; Kneses Hagedola 95:53; Minchas Yaakov 57:23; Peri Chadash 95:17; Kreisi 95:11; Lechem Hapanim 95:22; Chavas Daas 95:19; P”M 97 S.D. 20; Kaf Hachaim 95:47 and 52

[250] Shach ibid; Kneses Hagedola 95:53; Minchas Yaakov 57:23; Chavas Daas 95:19

Other opinions: Some Poskim are stringent to prohibit the vessels even in a case of great loss. [Peri Chadash 95:17; Kreisi 95:11; P”M 97 S.D. 20; Kaf Hachaim 95:52]

[251] The reason: As the pouring of a Keli Rishon has the ability to cook and transfer taste into a Kelipa’s worth of the pots, and hence the foods all become forbidden, which in turn prohibits a Kelipa’s worth of the pots. [Shach ibid]

[252] Taz ibid; Lechem Hapanim ibid; Poskim ibid

[253] P”M 95 S.D. 20; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:35; Kaf Hachaim 95:53; One must say in their intent that not everything is permitted as even if there is 60x versus the residue of one vessel, it nevertheless absorbs from the residue of the other vessel and becomes forbidden.

[254] Possibly, even in a case of doubt [if there was 60x versus the milk, or if the water was Yad Soledes] one may be lenient as there is a Sfek Sfeika a) Perhaps we rule like Rama that Iruiy Keli Rishon cannot forbid when poured on milk and meat. Furthermore b) Even according to the Shach, perhaps there was 60x the dairy residue in the water, or perhaps the water was not Yad Soledes.

[255] See in great length Igros Moshe Y.D. 2:42 for a defense of the custom to use the same sink for washing meat and then washing dairy dishes [separately] and a Halachic analysis on the power of pouring from a  Keli Rishon. This response of Rav Moshe was to the prohibiting ruling of Rav Halbershtam who understood that base on the rule of Iruiy Keli Rishon, one may not wash dishes in the same sink; See Yabia Omer 5:33

[256] This applies according to all, both Rama and Shach.

[257] This applies according to the Shach ibid, while accoridng to the Rama ibid, it does not absorb due to this.

[258] Rav Halbershtam, brought in Igros Moshe ibid, based on the rulings of the Poskim [Shach 95:20; Kneses Hagedola 95:53; Minchas Yaakov 57:23; Peri Chadash 95:17; Kreisi 95:11; Lechem Hapanim 95:22; Chavas Daas 95:19; P”M 97 S.D. 20; Kaf Hachaim 95:47 and 52] who rule that Iruiy Keli Rishon extracts and spreads Treif taste absorbed in a vessel.

[259] Rama 95:3; Igros Moshe ibid that so applies even according to Shach ibid as the Iruiy Keli Rishon can only extract in the exact area that it hits and not anywhere else that it flows towards.

[260] Shach 95:9; Admur 452:14

[261] Shach 95:9

[262] Shach 95:9; Peri Chadash 95:11; Lechem Hapanim 95:15; Chavas Daas 95:11; P”M 95 S.D. 9; Erech Hashulchan 95:13; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:23; Kaf Hachaim 95:33; However see Halacha 1C for opinions who rule it is permitted even initially

[263] Rama 95:3

[264] The reason: The milk vessels remains Kosher, as we do not assume that it was washed together with meat vessels in a Keli Rishon in a way that they would forbid each other. [Rama ibid] The reason for this is because there is a Safek Sfeka involved. Perhaps hot Keli Rishon water [or Iruiy Keli Rishon water according to Shach in Halacha 7] was not used, furthermore even if one certainly used hot water from a Keli Rishon] there is a doubt as to whether the meat and milk vessels were washed together simultaneously. Furthermore even if they were washed simultaneously there is doubt as to whether they were Ben Yomo or not. [Taz 95:14 in name of Issur Viheter; Lechem Hapanim 95:29; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:17; Chavas Daas 95:20; P”M 97 M.Z. 14; Kaf Hachaim 95:54] Alternatively, we do not assume a Kosher item has become Treif in another area. [P”M 97 M.Z. 14; Yad Avraham ibid]

[265] Taz 95:14 in name of Issur Viheter; Lechem Hapanim 95:29; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:17; Chavas Daas 95:20; P”M 97 M.Z. 14; Kaf Hachaim 95:54

The reason: The reason for this is because there is still a Safek Sfeka involved. Perhaps the meat and milk vessels were not washed together simultaneously. Furthermore, even if they were washed simultaneously, there is doubt as to whether they were Ben Yomo or not. [Taz ibid; Poskim ibid]

[266] P”M 97 M.Z. 14; Yad Avraham 95

[267] The reason: If one always washes his dishes with hot Keli Rishon water, seemingly according to the Rama/Taz the dairy dish would be forbidden as there is only one doubt. However, in truth there is another reason to be lenient, which is based on the rule of Ein Machzikim Issur Memamok Lemakom, and thus here we do not assume that the milk dish which is the drying rack was placed in the forbidden area of the sink, and thus even in such a case it is permitted. [Poskim ibid]

[268] Peri Chadash 95:18 based on Issur Viheter; Lechem Hapanim 95:29; P”M 97 M.Z. 14

[269] If the plates were dirty with meat or dairy residue, then this applies according to all, even the Michaber. If, however, the plates were clean but were Ben Yomo, then it is only forbidden according to the Rama. [Implication of Peri Chadash 95:18; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:36; Kaf Hachaim 95:55; See Halacha 5]

[270] Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:17; Kaf Hachaim 95:54

[271] See Yad Avraham 95 that when the vessel is found in its area of Issur, according to all opinions a Safek Sfeika is required to permit it.

[272] The reason: As there is still a Sfek Sfeika in this case, as perhaps the vessel was clean, and even if it was dirty with meat, perhaps we rule like the Rama that Iruiy Keli Rishon does not prohibit a vessel.

[273] If one found the dairy vessel in the meat sink and one uses Yad Soledes water of Iruiy Keli Rishon, then according to the stringent opinion [in Halacha 8B] one requires the Safek Sfeka for the milk vessel to be Kosher. [See Yad Avraham 95] Thus if one knows for certain that the vessels were Ben Yomo or that they were dirty , the vessel is forbidden if one always washes with hot Keli Rishon water. If one washes with Iruiy Keli Rishon this enters into the dispute between the Rama and Shach mentioned in Halacha 8B.

[274] See Yad Avraham ibid

[275] The reason: As there is no Safek here, as we know for sure it was washed with meat dishes in Yad Soledes water in a Keli Rishon. [Dishwashers typically heat the water to 140 degrees Fahrenheit and the water is heated within the dishwasher itself. However, perhaps the spraying water can be viewed as Iruiy Keli Rishon and hence be permitted according to the Rama, and according to the final ruling, in a case of great loss, as explained in Halacha 8. However, see article of Rav Rosen who explains that these Rabbanoim who gave their lenient rulings were unaware of how the machine works, and that in today’s machines it is judged as an actual Keli Rishon, as they contain coils inside, and the food does not become Pagum due to the soap, and there is no 60x when the water drains out, and other facts that the Rabbanim were unaware of today.]

[276] Now although a Stam vessel that is being washed is dirty, as explained in Shach 95:1, nevertheless here if one does not know for sure the vessel is dirty one may be lenient as perhaps the leftover residue became spoiled due to the soap or other spoiling agent. Nevertheless, there are Poskim who in truth learn that the vessel is only permitted if one knows for certain that it was clean. [Yad Avraham]

[277] Michaber 95:4

[278] Taz 95:15; Chacham Tzevi 101; Tzemach Tzedek [Kadmon] 91; Minchas Yaakov 58:26; P”M 95 M.Z. 15; Teshuvah Meahava 2:95; Aruch Hashulchan 95:24; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:38; Kaf Hachaim 95:58

[279] Beis David Y.D. 41; Kaf Hachaim 95:59

[280] Poskim ibid

[281] Shach 95:21

[282] The question: If this ruling of Michaber ibid were correct there would be a valid method to Kosher Ben Yomo vessels by placing ash in the water, and from the fact the Poskim rule that it is only permitted to Kosher Ben Yomo vessels if we don’t hold of Chanan shows that they did not agree to such an approach. [Shach ibid]

[283] Taz 95:15

[284] The question: The Rashal questions whether a pot of food which a child claimed that Cheilev soap fell into, is Kosher, as perhaps we do not believe the child. If the ruling of the Michaber were correct that it is Nosein Taam Lepegam, there would be no question that everything remains Kosher. [Taz ibid] However the Shach in Nekudos Hakesef answers the questions of the Taz saying the Michaber himself only allowed a case in which there is a small amount of Issur and not a large piece.

[285] Michaber 95:4; Chacham Tzevi 101; Tzemach Tzedek [Kadmon] 91; Peri Toar 95:6; Beis David Y.D. 41; Kneses Hagedola 95:46 in name of Lechem Chamudos and Damesek Eliezer that so is custom in many places; Birkeiy Yosef 95 Shiyurei Bracha 4 that we follow Michaber the Posek Hador and that many Poskim agree with him and that so is the custom; Birkeiy Yosef 107:10; Erech Hashulchan 107:1; Kehilas Yehuda 107; Eidus Behosef Samon 42; Ikarei Hadaat Y.D. 11:21; Chochmas Adam 48:15; Aruch Hashulchan 87:33; 95:24; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:38 that so is custom in Iraq and no one has ever protested this; Ben Ish Chaiy Bechukosaiy 12; Kaf Hachaim 95:56

[286] Shach 95:21; Taz 95:15

[287] Peri Chadash 95:19; Chavas Daas 95:21; Peri Megadim 95

[288] Birkeiy Yosef 107:10; Erech Hashulchan 107:1; Kehilas Yehuda 107; Eidus Behosef Samon 42; Ikarei Hadaat Y.D. 11:21; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:38 that so is custom in Iraq and no one has ever protested this; Ben Ish Chaiy Bechukosaiy 12 that so is custom of Bagdad although he concludes that it is best to avoid being lenient in this as it is not the same case ruling as that of Michaber’s original discussion; Kaf Hachaim 95:56

[289] The reason: As the ash causes the water, and any forbidden taste that it carries, to become Pagum and it hence cannot prohibit the other eggs. [Poskim ibid]

[290] Ben Ish Chaiy ibid

[291] Birkeiy Yosef 107:10; Erech Hashulchan 107:1; Kehilas Yehuda 107; Eidus Behosef Samon 42; Ikarei Hadaat Y.D. 11:21; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:38 that so is custom in Iraq and no one has ever protested this; Ben Ish Chaiy Bechukosaiy 12 that so is custom of Bagdad although concludes that best to avoid as it is not the same case ruling as that of Michaber’s original discussion; Kaf Hachaim 95:56

[292] Taz 95:15; Chacham Tzevi 101; Tzemach Tzedek [Kadmon] 91; Minchas Yaakov 58:26; P”M 95 M.Z. 15; Teshuvah Meahava 2:95; Aruch Hashulchan 95:24; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:38; Kaf Hachaim 95:58

[293] Beis David Y.D. 41 in name of Mahariku; Beis Yehuda 1:114; 2:77 Kaf Hachaim 95:59

[294] Beis David Y.D. 41 in name of Maharashi and so is his final ruling; Dvar Moshe 10; Dvar Shmuel 88; Kol Eliyahu Y.D. 1:11; Erech Hashulchan 95:17; Kaf Hachaim 95:59

[295] 95:5; Chulin 112a

[296] Michaber ibid; Chulin ibid

The reason: This is due to worry that perhaps milk will fall into the salt and it will not become nullified and one will then come to use the salt with meat. [Rashi Chulin 112a; Taz 95:16; Shach 95:22; Beis Yosef 95; Peri Chadash 95:20; Kaf Hachaim 95:60] Alternatively, the reason is because salt has ability to suck the milk flavor from the nearby vessel. [Rambam, brought in Peri Toar 95:7; P”M 95 M,Z, 16; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:41; Kaf Hachaim 95:61]

Placing temporarily: Seemingly, it is permitted to place the vessels near each other even if uncovered if one plans to move them apart right away. [Peri Toar 95:7; Peri Chadash 95:21] However, perhaps the Sages did not  differentiate in their decree. [Peri Chadash ibid; Kaf Hachaim 95:62]

[297] Reason of Rashi ibid; Peri Toar 95:7; P”M 95 M,Z, 16; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:41; Kaf Hachaim 95:61

[298] Rama ibid; Implication of Rashi ibid

[299] Reason of Rambam; Peri Toar 95:7; P”M 95 M,Z, 16; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:41; Kaf Hachaim 95:61

[300] Peri Toar 95:7; P”M 95 M”Z, 16; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:41; Kaf Hachaim 95:61; See Admur 462:20; Piskeiy Yoreh Deah p. 206

[301] Rama 95:5

[302] The reason: As we do not assume any milk has spilled into the salt [Rama ibid] as Ein Machzikin Issura. [Gr”a 95:25; Kaf Hachaim 95:62]

[303] Kneses Hagedola 95:9 in accordance to reason of Rambam; Kaf Hachaim 95:64

[304] Erech Hashulchan 95:19; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:44; Kaf Hachaim 95:65

[305] Michaber ibid

[306] The reason: As even if the milk falls into the vinegar, it will become nullified in 60x. [Rashi Chulin 112a; Taz 95:16; Shach 95:22; Beis Yosef 95; Peri Chadash 20]

[307] 95:6

[308] The reason: As people are extra careful with meat and milk to avoid them from coming into contact with each other when they are close together. [Shach 95:23; Taz 95:17; Beis Yosef 95; Peri Chadash 95:22; Kaf Hachaim 95:66]

[309] P”M 95 M.Z. 17; Kaf Hachaim 95:6

[310] Shach 95:24; Peri Toar 95:23; Minchas Yaakov 60:6; Kreisi 95:15; Chavas Daas 95:24; P”M 95 S.D. 24; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:45; Kaf Hachaim 95:67

[311] Rama 95:6

[312] Shach 95:24; Minchas Yaakov ibid; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:45; Kaf Hachaim 95:67

[313] Peri Chadash 95:23; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:47; Kaf Hachaim 95:68; See Admur Kuntrus Acharon 442:15; Piskeiy Yoreh Deah p. 207

[314] Michaber 95:7

[315] The reason: As salt does not have the ability to remove taste that is absorbed within the walls of a vessel. [Shach 95:25]

[316] Shach 95:25; Peri Chadash 95:24; Lechem Hapanim 95:31; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:21; Chavas Daas 95:25; P”M 95 S.D. 25; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:48; Kaf Hachaim 95:69

[317] P”M 95 S.D. 25; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:49; Kaf Hachaim 95:70

[318] Admur 447:56; See Piskeiy Yoreh Deah p. 208

[319] Admur ibid

Other reasons: Alternatively, this is because we suspect the vessel was not completely clean. [Shach 95 in Nekudos Hakesef]

[320] P”M 95 S.D. 25; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:49; Kaf Hachaim 95:70

[321] Taz 95:18

[322] Taz ibid; Rashal Kol Habasar 81; Lechem Hapanim 95:32; Chavas Daas 95:25; P”M 95 S.D. 25; Beis Yitzchak 95:39; Aruch Hashulchan 95:26; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:50; Kaf Hachaim 95:71

[323] Michaber 95:3

[324] Michaber 105:1; See Chapter 92 Halacha 12

[325] Rama 105:1; See Chapter 92 Halacha 12

[326] Rama 95:3

[327] Implication of Rama ibid and is Kal Vachomer from his ruling by Iruiy; Taz 95:12; Lechem Hapanim 95:22; Kaf Hachaim 95:47

The reason: As a Keli Sheiyni does not have ability to transfer taste. [Poskim ibid; See Chapter 91 Halacha 5A]

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that if the vessels were dirty with food, then the vessels are forbidden. [Rashal Kol Habasar 64, brought in Taz 95:12; See Chapter 91 Halacha 5A]

[328] The reason: As there are Poskim who rule that a Keli Sheiyni can cook, as explained in the previous footnote, and many Poskim suspect for their opinion, as brought in Chapter 91 Halacha 5A in footnotes.

[329] 95:3

[330] P”M 95 S.D. 10; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:27; Kaf Hachaim 95:36

[331] Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34

[332] Minchas Yaakov 57:16; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:28; Kaf Hachaim 95:37 that the leftover meat joins the water to nullify the milk residue in 60x and the leftover milk joins the water to nullify the meat residue in 60x, as Issurim join to nullify each other. [See Michaber 98:9]

[333] This follows the ruling of the Rama in scenario 5, however according to the Michaber there it applies even if both vessels are Ben Yomo.

[334] Based on Shach 95:10, as explained in Scenario 2.

[335] Issur Viheter 34:17; Minchas Yaakov 57:18; P”M 95 S.D. 1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:12; Kaf Hachaim 95:15

[336] Michaber 95:3; Shach 95:1; Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34

[337] Shach 95:10; Peri Chadash 95:13; Lechem Hapanim 95:16; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:10; Kreisi 95:8; Chavas Daas 95:12; P”M 95 S.D. 10; Chochmas Adam 48:8-9; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:25; Kaf Hachaim 95:35

[338] The reason: The reason if even one of the utensils were dirty with food while the other is Ben Yomo, that the entire mixture becomes forbidden is because this is a case of Nat Bar Nat Deissura, as the indirect taste of the meat utensil directly fuses with the dairy water and becomes Basar Bechalav. Only when indirect taste enters into a Pareve item do we say that it does not have the power to later on fuse into Basar Bechalav, in contrast to if it enters into dairy water. Alternatively, the residue directly touches the Ben Yomo vessel, and makes it forbidden, and it in turn forbids the water and all the other vessels. [Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34]

[339] Shach 95:10; Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34

[340] The reason: The meat vessel remains permitted as there is no Ben Yomo taste of milk in the water to prohibit it. However, the dairy vessels are forbidden, as they received direct taste of meat. [Peri Chadash 95:12; Minchas Yaakov 57:17; Kreisi 95:7; P”M 95 S.D. 11; Chochmas Adam 48:8; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:24; Kaf Hachaim 95:34]

[341] Rama 95:3; Admur 452:14

[342] The reason: As the water only contain fresh taste of either meat or milk, and hence does not become forbidden and cannot forbid other vessels. Even the non-Ben Yomo vessel remains permitted as it received the Ben Yomo taste of the opposite food through the water, thus making it a case of Nat Bar Nat. [Taz 95:9; Peri Chadash 95:14; Lechem Hapanim 95:17 and 19; Chavas Daas 95:15; Chochmas Adam 48:10; Kaf Hachaim 95:39 and 42]

Contradiction from Rama 94:5: Vetzaruch Iyun from Rama 94:5 in which he rules that whenever one placed a non-Ben Yomo into a Ben Yomo we are stringent to forbid the non-Ben Yomo vessel. In truth, however, this is because in that case the food is forbidden to be eaten with the food type of the non-Ben Yomo vessel. This hence forms Maaras Ayin for the onlooker who then sees one using the non-Ben Yomo vessel for its same food type. Therefore, in that case we are stringent to forbid the vessel. In this case, however, since there is no food involved which is receiving restrictions, therefore, there is no Maras Ayin apparent. [Taz 95:9]

[343] Rama ibid

The reason: As the water has absorbed a Pagum mixture of meat and milk and being that water is so easily attainable, the water has a Lechatchilah status which prohibits Pagum and hence may not be consumed. [Shach 95:14; Toras Chatas 57:14 in name of Issur Viheter] However, from the letter of the law, the water may be drunk plain or with the food type of the Ben Yomo vessel, although not with the food type of the non-Ben Yomo type. [Shach 95:14; Peri Chadash 95:16; Lechem Hapanim 95:20; Chochmas Adam 48:11; Kaf Hachaim 95:43]

[344] See Halacha 1D in Q&A regarding initially cooking Pareve in a non-Ben Yomo vessel with intent to eat with dairy that some Poskim rule it is allowed, and so would apply in this case even more so, and perhaps according to all, as the discussion is Nat Bar Nat of a vessel and not of a food. So is also proven from the allowance to Kosher meat and dairy vessels together if they are not Ben Yomo.

[345] Michaber 95:3

[346] The reason: as this mixture is a mixture of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. [Michaber ibid] The Michaber rules that Nat Bar Nat which meets Nat Bar Nat simultaneously does not have the power to create a prohibition of Basar Bechalav, and is hence defined as Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. If, however, Nat Bar Nat meets Nat [such as one placed a dairy Ben Yomo spoon into chicken soup] then it is forbidden even according to Michaber as it is a case of Nat Bar Nat Deissura.

[347] Shach 95:9; Peri Chadash 95:11; Lechem Hapanim 95:15; Chavas Daas 95:11; P”M 95 S.D. 9; Erech Hashulchan 95:13; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:23; Kaf Hachaim 95:33; However see Halacha 1C for opinions who rule it is permitted even initially

[348] Opinion in Rama 95:3; Tur 95 in name of Sefer Hateruma; Smak; Smag and Hagahos Shaareiy Dura; Admur 452:14

[349] The reason:  The reason the Rama holds that the entire mixture becomes forbidden is because a) Perhaps the utensils came into contact with each other and thus dissipated taste directly into each other. This transferring of taste is Nat Bar Nat Deissura. B) Since the water contains the taste of both foods which were dissipated from the meat and dairy vessels, therefore, when an opposite taste enters the water. it is considered Nat Bar Nat Deissura. [Shach 95:5 and 12; Taz 95:8]

[350] Admur 452:14; P”M 94 M.Z. 7; S.D. 8

The reason: As the vessel which has 60x against itself is only receiving Nat Bar Nat Dihetera of the opposite taste.

[351] However, the Sephardic custom is to permit everything. [Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:30 and Kaf Hachaim 94:49 and 95:45]

[352] Rama ibid; Admur 452:14; Peri Toar 95:5

[353] Poskim in next footnote; Birkeiy Yosef 95 Shiyurei Bracha 3 in name of Beis Yehuda; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:30 and Kaf Hachaim 94:49 and 95:45 that so is the Sephardic custom

[354] Kneses Hagedola 95:37; Maharanach 2:68; Mahramit 122; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:29; Kaf Hachaim 95:38 as many Poskim are stringent like Rama

[355] Rama 95:3

[356] The reason: This is because the taste in the water is Nat Bar Nat Dihetera, of which the Rama rules Bedieved it is permitted. [Taz 95:11; Shach 95:16; Lechem Hapanim 95:23; Kaf Hachaim 95:46] This means the following: When the pots are within hot water simultaneously, the absorbed taste of each pot enters into the water, causing each taste to meet the other taste as it enters into the water. According to the Rama this is considered Nat Bar Nat Deisura and hence everything is forbidden. If, however, they are placed in one after the other, then since when the taste of the first pot entered the water it did not meet any other taste, it is considered Nat Bar Nat Diheteira of which the Rama rules Bedieved is allowed, and hence the second set of vessels are permitted.

[357] The reason: As the absorbed taste of the first set of dishes has already become Nat Bar Nat Dihetera and cannot even join with Mamashus of food to now become Issur.

[358] Rama 95:3; Shach 95:20

[359] The reason: According to the Rama, the reason is because the pouring of a Keli Rishon does not have the ability to cause the taste absorbed in the pots to come out. [Rama ibid] According to the Shach ibid, it is permitted because it is Nat Bar Nat and is a case of Iruiy Keli Rishon. [Shach ibid;]

[360] Shach 95:20; Kneses Hagedola 95:53; Minchas Yaakov 57:23; Peri Chadash 95:17; Kreisi 95:11; Lechem Hapanim 95:22; Chavas Daas 95:19; P”M 97 S.D. 20; Kaf Hachaim 95:47 and 52

[361] As according to the Rama, Iruiy Keli Rishon does not have the ability to remove taste from one pot and transfer it to another

[362] Rama 95:3

[363] The reason: As the pouring of a Keli Rishon does not have the same ability as does a Keli Rishon to cause the pots to absorb from each other. [Rama ibid]

[364] Shach 95:20; Taz 95:12; Rashal Kol Habasar 64; Kneses Hagedola 95:53; Minchas Yaakov 57:23; Peri Chadash 95:17; Kreisi 95:11; Lechem Hapanim 95:22; Chavas Daas 95:19; P”M 97 S.D. 20; Kaf Hachaim 95:47 and 52

[365] The reason: As the pouring of a Keli Rishon has the ability to cook and transfer taste into a Kelipa’s worth of the pots, and hence the foods all become forbidden, which in turn prohibits a Kelipa’s worth of the pots. [Shach ibid]

[366] Shach ibid; Kneses Hagedola 95:53; Minchas Yaakov 57:23; Chavas Daas 95:19

Other opinions: Some Poskim are stringent to prohibit the vessels even in a case of great loss. [Peri Chadash 95:17; Kreisi 95:11; P”M 97 S.D. 20; Kaf Hachaim 95:52]

[367] Taz ibid; Lechem Hapanim ibid; Poskim ibid

[368] P”M 95 S.D. 20; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:35; Kaf Hachaim 95:53; One must say in their intent that not everything is permitted as even if there is 60x versus the residue of one vessel, it nevertheless absorbs from the residue of the other vessel and becomes forbidden.

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