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1. The definition of kneading: The liquid-Placing liquid in a food or mixing it in?[1]

First opinion:[2] One does not Biblically transgress kneading by placing water [See Q&A regarding other liquids] into flour alone, but rather one must knead them together as is done during the week.[3] [This applies whether the material is defined as kneadable or un-kneadable material.[4] Nevertheless, even according to this opinion, there is a Rabbinical prohibition to add water to kneadable materials, and it is only permitted to do so to un-kneadable materials.[5]]

Second Opinion:[6] [One Biblically transgresses kneading by even just placing water or another liquid or fruit juice into any material] even if one does not knead them at all, as the placing of the water is itself the kneading.[7] However [this only applies to if the amount of liquid placed will make a thick batter of the material however] by a thin batter there is no Biblical Prohibition of kneading at all.

The Final Ruling:[8] One should be stringent like the second opinion, and so is the custom. [As well, in cases that the second opinion is lenient, we are stringent like the first opinion.[9]]

Placing sesame seeds into liquids on Shabbos: One who places flax or sesame seeds into water and the like is liable for kneading [according to all opinions[10]] being that they [the water and the seed] mix and stick to each other.[11] However one may place sesame and nuts into honey [See Q&A regarding mixing it], although he may not [gather them[12] and] separate them with his hands [as doing so is considered separating[13]].[14]

Washing oneself with bran:[15] It is permitted to wash one’s hands with bran on Shabbos[16] being that [although] doing so involves kneading [it is considered done] with an irregularity.[17]

The reason this is allowed:[18] Now, although one is to be stringent not to knead on Shabbos [a thick mixture even] with an irregularity unless one placed the water in the mixture from before Shabbos as was explained in chapter 321 [Halacha 16], nevertheless here since he is not actually placing water into the bran and rather is merely taking the bran with wet hands it is permitted according to all [opinions].

Summary: Any mixture which contains the kneading prohibition is forbidden to have the liquid placed inside the mixture, even if one does not plan to mix it. Q&A Are we also stringent like the first opinion in cases that there is a kneading prohibition only according to their opinion?[19] Yes. We are stringent like both opinions. For an example of a case where the first opinion is strict over the second opinion- See Q&A below, and footnote there!   May one place kneadable food into liquid [as opposed to liquid into food] according to the second opinion?[20] No, it makes no difference which ingredient one places first. May one place sesame seeds/almonds and the like into honey on Shabbos?[21] One may place whole almonds/sesame into honey, although one may not knead them into the honey. Ground sesame or almonds may not ever be placed into honey.   May one place moist sushi on sesame seeds? If this will cause the sesame seeds to stick to each other, it is forbidden to do so due to kneading. If however it is a mere coating which is spread apart, or there is not enough liquid on the sushi to cause the sesame to stick, it is permitted. May one pour milk into cereal?[22] Leaving the cereal in the milk until it becomes a glob: Doing so is forbidden due to the above law. May one touch a food that has a kneading prohibition with wet hands? Yes, as stated above regarding bran. Dish detergent:[23] May be used with a large amount of water, so as not to transgress the kneading prohibition. Likewise, one may rub it onto the dishes using wet hands and then wash it off. Adding a lot of water to the mixture: Is permitted if it is like a drink, as this is not considered Lash according to any opinion.

General Q&A on the definition of kneading    The ingredients that contain Lash Does kneading a single ingredient into itself without any liquid contain a kneading prohibition?[24] The kneading prohibition only applies when one kneads two substances into each other to join and they become one substance. It does not apply when kneading a single food into itself. Nevertheless, one must beware that he does not transgress a grinding prohibition in the process, as explained in “The laws of grinding”.   Does mashing a banana and the like contain a kneading prohibition?[25] No. Nevertheless mashing contains a grinding prohibition and may only be done in ways explained in “The laws of Grinding”-See There! Is mixing two dry solids together defined as Lash?[26] No.   May one mix sugar with cocoa powder?[27] So long as no water is added this is allowed as the substances do not stick to each other and is thus not considered kneading.   Is mixing two solids or semi-liquids together defined as Lash if they unite and become one?[28] Dough with dough/bread with bread: Some Poskim[29] rule the kneading prohibition does not apply in such a case Other Poskim[30] however question that perhaps the kneading prohibition applies even in such a case. Semi-liquids such as cheese with honey: Some Poskim[31] rule the kneading prohibition does not apply in such a case. Other Poskim[32] however question that perhaps the kneading prohibition applies even in such a case.   Does the kneading prohibition also apply when adding liquids other than water into a mixture?[33] Yes. It applies by all liquidly substances such as oil, honey, soy sauce, cream cheese, butter, fruit juices.   Does the kneading prohibition apply against mixing a foods own liquids into that food? · Ground garlic:[34] For example ground garlic which has secreted liquids may one mix that liquid into the garlic on Shabbos? If the garlic was ground on Shabbos in a permitted way it is forbidden to mix in its extracted liquids on Shabbos.[35] If however one crushed the garlic before Shabbos, it is permitted to knead in the liquid on Shabbos using an irregularity, such as one’s finger or doing slowly with a spoon.[36] · Peanut oil:[37] It is permitted to slowly mix with a spoon[38] oil which floats on top of peanut butter into the peanut butter.[39] · Tuna oil: May one mix tuna with its oil? One may mix the oil into the tuna with an irregularity[40], doing so slowly even with a spoon.[41]   If adding liquid to the food will thin it out, as is common to occur when adding liquid to certain pastes, such as peanut butter, is there a kneading prohibition involved? Some Poskim[42] rule that if the material was not kneaded before Shabbos with an external liquid [as opposed to its own moisture] then it is forbidden to do so. Other Poskim[43] rule it is permitted to do so. Practically, one is to be stringent in this matter.[44]   Does the kneading prohibition apply to foods which do not grow from the ground? Some Poskim[45] rule it applies even to foods that do not grow on the ground, such as fish and meat and eggs. Other Poskim[46] rule it does not apply to foods that do not grow on the ground. Does the kneading prohibition apply to non-foods?[47] Yes.   Does the Lisha prohibition apply to baked foods? Some Poskim[48] rule that according to some[49] opinions the Biblical kneading prohibition does not apply to baked or cooked foods.[50] Nevertheless, even according to this opinion it remains Rabbinically forbidden to do so, and thus may only be done with the irregularities listed by the Sages.[51] Practically, even baked products must follow the regular kneading rules and hence may only be made into a thin mixture following the irregularities listed by the Sages.[52] This applies even if the baked product was previously kneaded with water prior to the baking.[53]   What mixtures of soilds with liquids are defined as kneading?[54] The kneading prohibition only applies when the two substances are being mixed in a way that they join and stick to each other forming one entity, as is the case with dough which is a mixture of flour and water, or with cooked oatmeal. Thus, whenever solids are large enough to prevent this form of unity in their mixture, and it is rather that the liquid coats over the solids, or that the solids are submerged within the liquids, then it is allowed.   May one knead food right before a meal, as is allowed with Borer and cutting food small?[55] Doing so right before the meal does not make the laws any more lenient. This is unlike the laws of Borer and cutting food small which may be done right before a meal with certain conditions, as explained in their sections.   May one knead on Yom Tov? It is permitted to knead on Yom Tov as one regularly does during the week.[56] However if it is a type of food which is better in quality when kneaded before Yom Tov one may only do so on Yom Tov using an irregularity.[57]

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[1] Admur 321:16

[2] Admur ibid; Rebbe Yossi Bar Rebbe Yehudah in Shabbos 18a, Rambam 21:33; Rif 67; Rosh 24:3; Razah; Ramban; Ran; Or Zarua; Rokeiach; Michaber 321:14 which allows kneading with Shinuiy items that are not Bar Gibul, hence proving he holds like Rebbe Yossi and Rambam [M”A 321:18; P”M 321 A”A 18] Michaber 324:3; See M”B 321:50 and Shaar Hatziyon ibid

Chiyuv only on Grogeres of flour: According to this opinion the Shiur Chiyuv for Lash is a Grogeres of the material, without taking the liquid into the Shiur. [Iglei Tal Lash 9; Avnei Nezer 125; See Mosach Hashabbos Mitzvah 32:10]

[3] The reason: As the Lash prohibition is against uniting the pieces of the material to each other and not against uniting the water ingredient with the flour ingredient. [Iglei Tal Lash 9:12-13]

[4] Admur ibid that according to this opinion one does not transgress at all by non-Bar Gibul material even if he kneads it; Rambam 21:33; Rif 67; Rashi; See Shabbos 18a

Other opinions by material that is not kneadable-Not Bar Gibul: Some Poskim rule that the above leniency of Rebbe Yossi applies only if the material is kneadable material, such as flour, while if it is not kneadable material, then even Rebbe Yossi agrees it is forbidden to even place water. [Tosafus 18a; Rosh Beitza 4; Raavad ibud; Ramban 156a; Rashba 156a; brought in M”A 321:19; M”B 321:50; This opinion is not mentioned in Michaber or Admur ibid-see P”M 321 A”A 19; Shabbos Kehalacha 22 Biurim 13]

[5] P”M 321 A”A 19; Biur Halacha 324:3 “Ein Govlin”; M”B 321:57; Iglei Tal Lash 9:20; Maggid Mishneh on Rambam ibid

[6] Admur ibid; Michaber 321:16 and 324:3 in name of Yeish Omrim; Rebbe Yehudah Hanassi in Shabbos ibid; Sefer Haterumah 220; Yireim [Eliezer of Mitz; Semag 65; Smak 281; Hagahos Maimanis; See M”B ibid and Shaar Hatziyon ibid

Un-kneadable materials: Some Poskim rule that the above leniency of Rebbe Yossi applies only if the material is kneadable material, such as flour, while if it is not kneadable material, then even Rebbe Yossi agrees it is forbidden to even place water. [Tosafus 18a; Rosh Beitza 4; Raavad ibid; Ramban 156a; Rashba 156a; brought in M”A 321:19; M”B 321:50; This opinion is not mentioned in Michaber or Admur ibid-see P”M 321 A”A 19; Shabbos Kehalacha 22 Biurim 13]

Chiyuv only on Grogeres of dough: According to this opinion the Shiur Chiyuv for Lash is a Grogeres of dough, thus taking the liquid into the Shiur. [Iglei Tal Lash 9; Avnei Nezer 125; See Mosach Hashabbos Mitzvah 32:10]

[7] The reason: As the Lash prohibition is against uniting the water ingredient with the flour ingredient, and this is accomplished by merely adding the water to the flour. [Iglei Tal Lash 9:12-13]

[8] Admur 324:3; Darkei Moshe 324:1; Bach 324; Rama 321:16 and 324:3; M”A 321:19 regarding non-Bar Gibul;

[9] See Next Halacha Q&A there! See below Q&A for an example of such a case where the second opinion would be lenient.

[10] Meaning even according to the first opinion mentioned above one is liable in such a case, as stated explicitly in Rambam that one is liable for kneading in such a case despite that he himself rules like the first opinion.

The reason: As by these foods the final result of a united item is achieved simply through adding water even without any kneading in the process. [See P”M 321 M”Z 12; Iglei Tal 9:18; See Shabbos Kehalacha 22:27 for a thorough discussion on this matter]

[11] Admur 340:16; Michaber 340:12; Rambam 8; Zevachim 94b

^[12] Mishneh Berurah on 319:66

^[13] Mishneh Berurah on 340:39, as well as doing so contains the kneading prohibition [Ketzos Hashulchan 130 footnote 18]

[14] Admur 319:27; Michaber 319:17 and 340:11; See Shabbos Kehalacha 22:27

[15] Admur 326:9

[16] Admur ibid; Michaber 326:10; Mordechai Remez 325

[17] Admur ibid; Rama 326:10

[18] Admur ibid; M”A 326:10; M”B 326:28; See Biur Halacha 326:9 “Lirchotz Yadav”

[19] Ketzos Hashulchan 130 footnote 1 and 8

[20] Iglei Tal Lash 9:18; Ketzos Hashulchan 130 footnote 2

[21] Ketzos Hashulchan 130:5 and footnote 17 and 18

[22] Shabbos Kehalacha 22:57; Nishmas Shabbos p. 343; Piskeiy Teshuvos 321:28-6

[23] Piskeiy Teshuvos 323:5

[24] Tehila Ledavid 321:29; 252:46 “Mashing a single food does not contain Lash or Tochein, as the food was a single substance and has remained a single substance”; SSH”K 8:3; See Chazon Ish 58:9; Igros Moshe 4:74 Tochein 2; Shevisas Hashabbos Hakdama Lash 8:6-9; Shabbos Kehalacha 22:6-7

Other opinions: However some opinions are stringent in this matter. [Bris Olam Lash]

[25] SSH”K 8:3

[26] Michaber 340:12; SSH”K 8:4; Shabbos Kehalacha 22:4

[27] SSH”K 8:5

[28] Shabbos Kehalacha 22:49; Piskeiy Teshuvos 321:24-25

[29] Shevisas Hashabbos Lash 8-9 as one is not uniting two different species of foods; Orchos Shabbos 6:20; Nishmas Shabbos 321:306; Igros Moshe 4:74-13; Chut Hashani 13:2 as the kneading prohibition only applies when mixing a liquid with many solids to join and become one solid.

[30] Rav SZ”A 8 footnote 13 as perhaps the prohibition applies anytime one unites two pieces together through moisture.

[31] Orchos Shabbos 6:20; Nishmas Shabbos 321:306; Igros Moshe 4:74-13; Chut Hashani 13:2 as the kneading prohibition only applies when mixing a liquid with many solids to join and become one solid; See Ketzos Hashulchan 130 footnote 12 regarding lentils.

[32] Shevisas Hashabbos Lash 11; Rav SZ”A 8 footnote 13 as perhaps the prohibition applies anytime one unites two pieces together through moisture.

[33] Admur 321:16 in second opinion “water or one of the other liquids or fruit juice”; M”B 321:50; Ketzos Hashulchan 130:1 and SSH”K 8:1

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule the kneading prohibition only applies with the seven liquids that contract Tuma.

[34] Ketzos Hashulchan 130:3 footnote 8 in name of Igleiy Tal

[35] This matter follows the same dispute as mentioned above.

According to the first opinion mentioned, doing so is considered kneading and is thus forbidden. The reason for this is because according to the first opinion the prohibition of kneading is simply to join two items into one, which is accomplished even when kneading food with its own liquid. However according to the second opinion doing so is not considered kneading and would thus be permitted. The reason for this is because they hold that the main aspect of kneading is the adding of ingredients, and here no ingredients were added, as the food naturally came with it.

The final ruling: As was explained above we are stringent like both opinions, and thus this may not be done.

[36] M”B 321:62 in the name of the Magen Avraham 321:22 that when mixing in the original liquid that was placed before Shabbos a spoon may be used even according to the Rama.

[37] So rules SSH”K 8:7

[38] M”B [62] in the name of the Magen Avraham [22] that when mixing in the original liquid that was placed before Shabbos a spoon may be used even according to the Rama.

[39] This is allowed to be done being that the butter is considered to have been kneaded from before Shabbos with its oil of which some still remains within the mixture, of which the law is that one may add its liquid to it on Shabbos, as will be explained in Halacha 5. [SSH”K ibid]

Adding in other liquids: SSH”K ibid allows one to add other liquids as well to the peanut butter based on their understanding [in Biur Halacha 321 Yachol Learvo”] that adding liquid is allowed when one intends to make a food thinner as, kneading only applies when one desires to thicken the food. Vetzaruch Iyun Gadol from what will be explained in Practical Q&A, as well as in Halacha 5 Q&A, that the mixing of a foods own liquid before Shabbos does not consider it mixed, and thus there would remain no allowance to enter other liquids into the peanut butter. Furthermore the ruling there in Biur Halacha is referring to adding water to an already kneaded food as then one destroys the kneading that was already done, and does not apply when a food was never yet kneaded. This is in addition to that SSH”K contradict themselves later regarding Tehina, that one may not add liquids to it. See also Ketzos Hashulchan 130 footnote 19 which brings up such a logic that thinning a food is not considered kneading, although he concludes one may not rely on this as we see even by radishes the Taz was stringent to require a Shinui.

Despite the above to enter the peanut oil into the butter would be allowed even in accordance to the ruling there as according to both opinions there once the oil has been mixed into it before Shabbos, entering back its own oil is not problematic-see there!

[40] As the oil was already placed within the tuna from before Shabbos, and tuna is not a kneadable material. [See Halacha 4 and Q&A there]

[41] M”B [62] in the name of the Magen Avraham [22] that when mixing in the original liquid that was placed before Shabbos  a spoon may be used even according to the Rama.

[42] Ketzos Hashulchan 130 footnote 19; SSH”K regarding Techina however see SSH”K 8:7 who allows adding other liquids to the food even if it was not mixed with external liquid before Shabbos; See Tehila Ledavid 321:21 that so is ruling according to Rebbe Yehuda, brought in Michaber 321:16; Piskeiy Teshuvos 321:25

Background:

SSH”K ibid allows one to add other liquids as well to the peanut butter based on their understanding [in Biur Halacha 321 Yachol Learvo”] that adding liquid is allowed when one intends to make a food thinner as, kneading only applies when one desires to thicken the food. Vetzaruch Iyun Gadol from what will be explained in Practical Q&A, as well as in Halacha 5 Q&A, that the mixing of a foods own liquid before Shabbos does not consider it mixed, and thus there would remain no allowance to enter other liquids into the peanut butter. Furthermore the ruling there in Biur Halacha is referring to adding water to an already kneaded food as then one destroys the kneading that was already done, and does not apply when a food was never yet kneaded. This is in addition to that SSH”K contradict themselves later regarding Tehina, that one may not add liquids to it. See also Ketzos Hashulchan 130 footnote 19 which brings up such a logic that thinning a food is not considered kneading, although he concludes one may not rely on this as we see even by radishes the Taz was stringent to require a Shinui. Despite the above to enter the peanut oil into the butter would be allowed even in accordance to the ruling there as according to both opinions there once the oil has been mixed into it before Shabbos, entering back its own oil is not problematic-see there!

[43] Or Letziyon 2:33-7; Many Rabbanim including Yalkut Yosef; Rav Avraham Yosef; Rav Dov Lior; as the liquid simply dilutes the food and does not make its pieces stick together; See Michaber 321:15 as explained in P”M 321 M”Z 13 [brought in M”B 321:? and Biur Halacha ibid] that if a food was previously kneaded with its own juice it is permitted to be kneaded on Shabbos with a  Shinuiy.

[44] SSH”K 8:? regarding techina; Shabbos Kehalacha 22:60 footnote 60

[45] Igros Moshe 4:74 Lash 13; Shevet Halevi 4:32; Piskeiy Teshuvos 321:17; See Tehila Ledavid 321:25

[46] Halef Lecha Shlomo 139; Tzitzis Eliezer 11:36; See Tehila Ledavid 321:25

[47] Shabbos 18a “One who mixes earth with water…”; Rambam 8:16; Shabbos Kehalacha 22 footnote 5

[48] Biur Halacha 321:14 “Shema Yavo” in opinion of Tosafus

[49] Tosafus Shabbos 18a; Vetzaruch Iyun if this would apply likewise according to the opinion of the Rambam. However certainly it would not apply according to the opinion of Rebbe Yehuda, as he prohibits to kenad roasted flour even with the irregularities, as brought in Shabbos 155b.

[50] The reason: As the food is ready to be eaten in its current state, and hence adding water to it is not considered part of the Melacha of Lisha but rather as part of the eating process. [ibid]

[51] Biur Halacha ibid

[52] As according to Rebbe Yehuda baked products retain the Biblcial prohibition, and initially we are stringent like the opinion of Rebbe Yehuda.

[53] Taz 321:11; Tehila Ledavid ibid; Iglei Tal ibid; Har Tzevi ibid; Ketzos Hashulchan 130 footnote 12

[54] Taz 321:12 in name of Bach regarding lettuce; Ketzos Hashulchan 130:6 footnote 19; Shevisas Hashabbos Pesicha 20; SSH”K 8:4; Piskeiy Teshuvos 321:27

[55] Magen Avraham 321:24; M”B 321:66; Ketzos Hashulchan 130 footnote 7; SSH”K 8:2

[56] 495:5; SSH”K 8 in side note; Piskeiy Teshuvos 506:1

^[57] Admur rules in 495:5 that all the Melachos which are not done for many days worth, like Kneading, may be done on Yom Tov. Nevertheless, it may only be done with an irregularity, unless it was not done on Erev Yom Tov due to Onness, or due to it not being as fresh if it were to be done then, in which case it’s permitted to do regularly on Yom Tov. In general foods which are kneaded taste better when kneaded that day as opposed to the day before. Hence Admur rules there that kneading may always be done regularly on Yom Tov. So is also implied from chapter 473 Halacha 34 that Admur does not mention any regulations regarding kneading the charoses on Yom Tov that does not fall on Shabbos. Nevertheless, in the event one is making a food that is better kneaded the day before, such as making homemade pasta, then the above ruling would apply that an irregularity is needed. [Piskeiy Teshuvos ibid]