4. Conversing with the Avel

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4. Conversing with the Avel

A. Mourner must open the conversation:[1]

The comforters are not permitted to begin conversing [with the Avel] until the Avel speaks to them [or gives them some other sign of approval[2]].[3] [Some Aveilim have the custom of greeting the comforters with the saying of Baruch Dayan Haemes.[4]]

 

Q&A

Must the Avel begin speaking to each individual?[5]

No. It suffices for him to begin speaking with any person in the group of comforters, and this then gives all the other people present permission to speak.

 

May one say “Hamakom Yinachem” to the Avel prior to him beginning to speak?[6]

Yes.

What are the comforters to do if the mourner does not begin to speak?[7]

If the comforters see that the mourner is not speaking due to shyness, or embarrassment, or due to his great pain, or due to not being aware of the law, then they may begin to speak before him. Alternatively, in the latter case, one can tell the Avel that he is to begin to speak in order for them to speak, as explained next.

  May one tell the Avel that he is to begin speaking in order so the comforters can speak?[8] Yes.

B. Greeting the mourner or the comforters:

See Chapter 19 Halacha 4 for the full details of this Halacha!

Avel greeting others: It is forbidden for a mourner to greet people throughout Shiva. If a person greets him, he may reply to their greeting after three days into Shiva. After the Shiva, the Avel may inquire of the wellbeing of any person. It is permitted for the Avel to greet others on Shabbos and Yom Tov, even within Shiva.

Others greeting the Avel: It is forbidden for people to greet the Avel throughout Shiva, until the Shloshim. It is permitted to greet an Avel on Shabbos and Yom Tov, unless their custom is to be stringent.

Farewell greetings to the comforters:[9] If many people have come to comfort the mourners, the mourners may respectfully part with them by saying “Go to your houses in peace/Lechu Lebeischem Beshalom.”[10] [This applies even within the first three days of Aveilus.[11]]

 Q&A

May comforters exchange greetings in the Shiva home?

Some Poskim[12] rule that greetings are not to be exchanged in the Shiva home even between the comforters, amongst themselves, [and they are hence not to greet each other with Shalom, or good afternoon and the like].

Nodding head:

It is permitted for the mourner or comforter to nod his head as a greeting.  However, some Poskim are stringent.

Shaking hands:

It is permitted for the Avel and others to shake hands, such as upon greeting each other with a blessing of Mazal Tov, or upon comforting the mourner and the like. 

May an Avel be congratulated for a Simcha, or congratulate others for their Simcha?

A mourner may say Mazal Tov/Congratulations to his friend upon the occasion of a Simcha. Likewise, others may wish him Mazal Tov on the occasion of a Simcha that he has.

May an Avel give a blessing to others and may he be blessed by others?

Yes. They may thus wish each other a Kesiva Vechasima Tova when sitting Shiva during the Yamim Noraim.[13]

May an Avel thank visitors for coming?

Yes. He may likewise say Yasher Koach to the visitors.

C. Topics of conversation with the Avel:

The comforters should prepare their conversation prior to arriving at the Shiva home.[14] The comforters should tell the mourners good matters to the point that they rejoice him, and he returns to have a happy countenance.[15] They are to tell him matters that bring him to justify the ways of Hashem and accept his decrees with love.[16]

Words of Torah:[17] One is not to speak words of Torah [that do not relate to the Aveilus] in the Shiva home and rather the comforters are to sit there quietly [at times that they are not saying words of comfort to the Avel]. [Nevertheless, the custom today is to allow learning Torah in the Shiva home even in front of the Avel.[18]]

Mundane matters:[19] The comforters are not to speak of [mundane] matters with the mourners unless it is a necessity. [They may however slightly[20] speak of even mundane matters in order to lighten the mood of the mourner.[21]]

Not to tell the Avel to sit down:[22] One is not to tell an Avel, or a sick person, to sit down, as it implies that he is to sit and remain in his state of mourning or illness. [One may however tell him that he does not need to stand, or other indirect term.[23] The Avel may tell others to sit down.]

Not to arouse judgment:[24] The mourner is not to say regarding his suffering “I have not yet received enough suffering to cover my sins” and other statements of the like [which convey that he is deserving of greater punishment], as one is not to open his mouth for the Satan.

Not to say to the Avel what can you do, it wasn’t in your control:[25] A person is not to tell the Avel “What can you do, as its beyond your control” as this statement sound like blasphemy, as it implied that if it was in his control then he would have changed it. Rather, he is to accept Hashem’s decree with love. [This means to say that the Avel is to accept the tragedy as the will of Hashem, and not be saddened over the fact that he did not have his way.[26]]

Praying for the deceased:

Some[27] write that the comforters are to pray and arouse Divine mercy on behalf of the deceased. Nonetheless, it is not the custom to do so.[28]

Sitting in silence:

Some are accustomed to entering the home and not to say anything other than the customary wishes of Hamakom Yinachem that the comforter offers the mourner upon exiting the home. This is also considered a form of Nichum Aveilim.[29] Nevertheless, the main comforting is fulfilled through speaking with the Avel.[30]

Saying Hakam upon mentioning the name of the deceased:

Regarding saying Hareini Kaparas Mishkavo upon mentioning one’s deceased parent-see Chapter 23 Halacha 18!

The Avel’s conversation-Stories and eulogies:

The seven days of Shiva were given for eulogies.[31] Although the Chabad custom is not to eulogize, nevertheless, we do say stories of the deceased.[32] 

Q&A

May a comforter recite words of Torah in front of an Avel and may the Avel listen to the words of Torah being said?

Ideally, one is not to speak words of Torah [that do not relate to the Aveilus] in the Shiva home and rather the comforters are to sit there quietly [at the times that they are not saying words of comfort to the Avel].[33] Nevertheless, the custom is to recite words of Torah in the Shiva home.[34] They may recite words of Torah even in front of the Avel and even if the Avel will listen to the words of Torah being said.[35]

D. Birchas Aveilim:[36]

In previous times, it was customary to recite a number of blessings in the middle of the street, or in the house of the Avel, during each day of Shiva. These blessings included: 1) A blessing on a Kos Shel Bracha; 2) Blessing of Menachem Aveilim; 3) Blessing of Mechayeh Meisim; 4) Other blessings with Hashem’s name, as they saw fit. However, the blessings were only said if there was a Panim Chadashos present. Practically, these blessings are no longer recited today, as to begin with they were never obligatory but rather optional.[37]

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[1] Michaber 376:1; Moed Katan 28b

[2] See Igros Kodesh 24:276 that if the mourner opens a letter of condolences there is no greater “starting of conversation than this”; See also Reshimos Hayoman p. 413 that the Rebbe Rayatz directed a few times that they should not wait until he begins to speak [brought in Toras Menachem 5:278] Hence, from here we see there is no need for the Avel to actually talk, as long as he gives his consent.

[3] The reason: This is done in order so the Avel express some sign of anguish and mourning to the comforters and hence have the comforters reply back with words of condolences. [Levush 376] Alternatively, the reason is because the Avel is obligated to accept Hashem’s decree as justifiable, as brought in the prayer of Tziduk Hadin. [Aruch Hashulchan 376]

[4] Beis Yosef 376 in name of Ramban in name of Rav Haiy Gaon

[5] Igros Kodesh 24:276 [brought in Toras Menachem 5:278] based on Iyov 2 and end of Moed Katan

[6] Perisha 393:3; Pnei Baruch 10 footnote 5 in name of Rav SZ”A; See Nitei Gavriel 87:7 footnote 8

[7] Tzitz Eliezer 17; Nitei Gavriel 87:6

[8] Tur 376 as explained in Perisha 376:24 and Bach; Nitei Gavriel 87:8 footnote 9

[9] Rama 385:1; Nemukei Yosef; Hagahos Maimanis; Mordechai; Chochmas Adam 165:12; Kitzur SHU”A 210:7;

[10] The reason: As he is doing so out of respect of the public, and greetings of such nature are permitted. [Rama ibid]

[11] Gesher Hachaim 21:7-3

[12] Aruch Hashulchan 385:4; Nitei Gavriel 89:1

[13] Nachamu Ami p. 68 in name of his father Rav A.C. Naah

[14] See Shevet Halevi 213 based on Zohar Korach

[15] Shelah beginning of Pesachim p. 144a; Mateh Moshe 85; Poskim in Nitei Gavriel 87:1 footnote 1

[16] Mavor Yabok Sifsei Renanos 19

[17] Michaber 378:7; Moed Katan 23a

[18] See Q&A!

[19] See Rama 334:2 and Yosef Daas 376 that it is a Kal Vachomer from the prohibition of learning Torah and so can be implied from the ruling of the Michaber in 378:7 that “they are rather to sit quietly”

[20] See Rama 386:1; Nitei Gavriel 87:12

[21] Yosef Daas 376 brought in Nitei Gavriel 87 footnote 3

[22] Michaber 376:2; Moed Katan 27b

[23] Nitei Gavriel 89:5 in name of Nimukei Yosef Moed Katan 27b and Daas Torah 376:2

[24] Rama 376:2

[25] Rama 376:2; Baba Kama 38a; See Taz 376:1 for an explanation of this statement, and the difference between how David said it and others

[26] Taz ibid

[27] Mavor Yabok Imrei Noam 35; See Nitei Gavriel 87 footnote 2

[28] Answer of Rebbe printed in Nitei Gavriel 87 footnote 3; Shulchan Menachem 5:279

[29] Perisha 393:3

[30] Hapardes Rashi Avel; Machzor Vitri p. 244; Shivlei Halekey Semachos; Tanya Rabasi 66; Igros Moshe 5:20; See Nitei Gavriel 87:9 footnote 10

[31] See Chapter 11 Halacha 2!

[32] Likkutei Sichos 2:504, printed in Shulchan Menachem 5:270

[33] Michaber 378:7; Moed Katan 23a

[34] Aruch Hashulchan 378:8; Toras Menachem 41:45, printed in Shulchan Menachem 5:27

[35] Toras Menachem 41:45, printed in Shulchan Menachem 5:27; Peir Eitz Chaim 24, brought in Nitei Gavriel 106 footnote 9; Regarding however hearing Torah prior to Birchas Hatorah see our Sefer “Awaking like a Jew” Chapter 9 Halacha 4 in Q&A for dispute in Poskim

The reason: Doing so is not prohibited due to the prohibition against the Avel learning Torah as this prohibition applies only to the Avel and not to others. See Shulchan Menachem ibid footnote 15 that Rav Gustman said a Pilpul on the law of Shomeia Keoneh before the Rebbe during Shiva, and concluded to prove that it is forbidden for people to recite Divrei Torah in front of the Avel. The Rebbe however jested and said “The entire reason behind the prohibition is due to joy, and you can imagine the lack of joy there is when the Avel must hear words of Torah that he has questions on and may nevertheless not ask him the questions”

[36] Tur 376:4

[37] Tur ibid; Omitted from Shulchan Aruch

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