Question
In my shul there is an established practice of having a “kiddush club” during davening, and it has become a regular occurrence each Shabbos. Typically, it begins right before the Haftarah—and sometimes even earlier, in the middle of Shvi’i—when a large group of people suddenly get up and walk out of the sanctuary together. They go to a side room where they make Kiddush on large cups of mashke and drink, often more than just a minimal amount. By the time they return, it is already toward the end of davening—sometimes right before Musaf—and they often come back loud, somewhat disruptive, and at times even appearing partially intoxicated. This creates a disturbance in the shul and disrupts the atmosphere of tefillah. In addition, it bothers me that they are leaving in the middle of Kerias HaTorah and Haftarah, which I understand are obligations that one is supposed to hear. It also seems that this behavior has become normalized, and no one in the congregation appears to object or address it, aside from my own discomfort with the situation. How does Halacha view this practice, and is my concern justified?
Answer
Kiddush clubs are generally discouraged, as they often lead to multiple halachic concerns, including improper eating before Musaf, excessive drinking, disruption of davening, and neglect of important obligations such as Kerias HaTorah. In addition, they frequently damage the proper attitude and atmosphere of the shul, turning a מקום תפילה into a place of socializing and distraction, and thereby detract from the sanctity, focus, and dignity of Davening.
Rabbanim and Gabbaim of the shuls bear a responsibility to safeguard the sanctity and proper conduct of the Beis Haknesses, and therefore they must actively protest and work to curb such practices. As the spiritual and communal leaders, it is incumbent upon them to set clear standards, educate the congregation about the halachic and ethical concerns involved, and ensure that the atmosphere of tefillah remains one of respect, focus, and קדושה, rather than allowing behaviors that undermine the purpose and dignity of the בית הכנסת to become normalized.
Explanation:
In this explanation, we will discuss and analyze the issues that arise from the phenomenon of kiddush clubs.
Eating and drinking alcohol before Musaf: The basic halacha is that eating before Musaf is permitted only in a limited manner, both in terms of the type and amount of food. One may eat fruits and drink non‑alcoholic beverages without restriction, but bread, mezonos, and alcohol are limited to no more than a kibeitza (approximately 55 grams or 55cc), and one may not exceed this amount. Chazal permitted only this limited, controlled eating before Musaf in order to prevent a person from becoming distracted or negligent in fulfilling the obligation of tefillah. Foods that do not constitute a full meal were allowed more freely, while more filling foods and alcohol were restricted to small quantities. The rationale is clear: once a person becomes involved in eating or drinking, especially in a social setting, it becomes easy to lose track of time, diminish one’s focus, and delay or even miss prayer. Thus, while Halacha does allow limited eating between Shacharis and Musaf—such as fruits and beverages without restriction, and up to a kibeitza of bread, mezonos, or alcohol—the common reality of “kiddush clubs” goes far beyond these boundaries and is therefore highly problematic.
Davening under the influence of alcohol: Not only do such gatherings frequently involve consumption beyond the halachically permitted limits, but they also lead to additional serious concerns: participants often drink excessive alcohol and may return to daven Shemoneh Esrei while impaired, which creates a grave halachic issue. If one has reached the level of a shasuiy—unable to speak properly before a king—it is forbidden to daven Shemoneh Esrei, and if he is a shikur—lacking even basic clarity and fluency—it is forbidden even to recite Shema; if he nevertheless davens in such a state, his prayer is considered invalid and even described by Chazal as an abomination. Thus, returning to daven after drinking to excess not only undermines the dignity of tefillah but can result in a complete failure to fulfill one’s obligation.
Missing Kerias Hatorah and Maftir Haftorah: Another common issue with kiddush clubs is that individuals routinely leave in the middle of Kerias HaTorah, the Maftir, or the Haftarah, despite the fact that these are obligations incumbent upon each individual to hear. It is striking that people who are otherwise careful to listen attentively to every word of the Torah reading will nevertheless get up in the middle and walk out, thereby missing parts of this communal mitzvah. Aside from the halachic concern, this behavior also sends a troubling message—especially for parents whose children observe their actions—teaching, by example, that parts of the davening can be treated casually or even abandoned, which can have a long‑term negative effect on their children’s respect for tefillah and the mitzvos connected to the בית הכנסת.
Missing Musaf: Another common issue with kiddush clubs is that it often also leads to missing beginning Musaf on time with the congregation, or missing the minyan for Musaf altogether, as individuals who leave for extended periods may not return in time to properly participate in the continuation of the service, thereby compromising both their personal obligation and their role within the communal tefillah.
Distraction of the Minyan: Additionally, the disruption caused—people moving, talking, and gathering—affects not just the individuals involved but the entire congregation, weakening the atmosphere of concentration and reverence that a shul is meant to foster. When combined with the risk of returning to daven while under the influence of alcohol, the practice becomes even more concerning, as proper kavana and basic halachic standards of prayer are compromised.
General Hashkafic issue: Furthermore, kiddush clubs promote a culture of treating tefillah lightly, prioritizing socializing over avodas Hashem. Thus, both from a strict halachic perspective and from a broader view of preserving the sanctity of tefillah, kiddush clubs represent a practice that stands in tension with the proper conduct expected in a בית הכנסת.
Kiddush Clubs and Eating Before Musaf – Summary Table
| Section | Summary |
| Basic Halacha | Eating before Musaf is limited in type and quantity |
| Permitted Foods | Fruits and non-alcoholic drinks: unlimited |
| Bread/Mezonos | Up to a kibeitza (≈55g), but not more |
| Alcohol | Up to a kibeitza (≈55cc) |
| Kiddush Clubs | Usually exceed permitted limits and are problematic |
| Key Condition | Must intend to return to a minyan for Musaf |
| Private Davening | Requires a shomer (reminder) for leniency |
| Practical Conclusion | Routine kiddush clubs are generally not justified |
Illustrative Incident and Its Impact:
A striking example of the negative effects of kiddush clubs was related by an individual from a serious Torah‑observant family of the Lithuanian community, who is nevertheless familiar with Chabad and even participates in a Chassidus kollel. While visiting Yerushalayim with his family for Shabbos, he chose to daven in a well‑known Chabad shul. As soon as the time came for Maftir, he was shocked to see that a large portion of the congregation—some 60 to 70 individuals, including respected members with long beards and kapotas, along with children of all ages—simply stood up and left the shul. Curious, he stepped outside and discovered that they had gathered to form a kiddush club, where they were making Kiddush on full cups of various alcoholic beverages and drinking them in quantity. The group proceeded to socialize loudly, laugh, and converse, to the point that the reading of Maftir and afterward the Haftarah became difficult to hear even inside the main sanctuary due to the disturbance. Eventually, many of them returned during Ashrei, some visibly intoxicated to the extent that they could barely walk straight, creating a general uproar and destroying any remaining sense of decorum or סדר within the shul. To his astonishment, one of these individuals even went up to serve as chazzan for Musaf. The entire experience left a deeply negative impression on him; having never witnessed such behavior during davening, he felt so disturbed that he resolved never to return to that shul again. This account vividly illustrates not only the halachic concerns, but also the profound חילול or erosion of the dignity, atmosphere, and sanctity expected in a בית הכנסת.
Sources:
See regarding the prohibition of eating before Musaf and its limitations: Admur 286:4; Michaber 286:3; Brachos 28b; M”A 233:17 regarding Mincha and 286:2 regarding Musaf that one may not eat more than a Kebeitza; M”B 286:8; M”B 233:35 regarding Mincha; Shaar Hatziyon 286:7-8; Misgeres Hashulchan on Kitzur SHU”A 69:2 regarding baked Mezonos, based on Shaareiy Teshuvah 639 regarding Sukkah; Kitzur SHU”A ibid that one should be stringent even regarding non-baked Mezonos; See Piskeiy Teshuvos 232:5; Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that it is permitted to eat more than Kebeitza of Mezonos prior to Mincha. [Aruch Hashulchan 639:18] Non-baked Mezonos: Some Poskim rule one may eat even more than a Kibeitza of non-baked Mezonos prior to Mincha [M”B 232:34; Derech Hachaim7] and outside of a Sukkah [M”B 639:15], so long as he does not eat an amount for which one generally sets a meal on, and in their opinion the same would apply to Musaf. [See M”B 286:8 and Shaar Hatziyon 286:7; Piskeiy Teshuvos 286:8 footnote 60] However, according to Admur, it is forbidden to eat more than a Kebeitza of any Mezonos outside a Sukkah, and seemingly the same would apply prior to Mincha and Musaf, as stated above. Opinion of Admur: Although Admur does not explicitly state that it is forbidden to eat more than a Kebeitza of Mezonos prior to Musaf, and simply writes not to eat more than a Kebeitza of bread, one cannot derive from this that it is indeed permitted to do so in his opinion, as a) the term Pas is not exclusive to Hamotzi, as we find regarding Pas Haba Bekisnin; b) Also the Michaber in 232:3 regarding Mincha only prohibits more than a Kebeitza of bread, and nonetheless, the Achronim write that also Mezonos is forbidden and make no inference from this wording that it is exclusive to Hamotzi. c) If this were correct then why would Admur need to mention an allowance of eating fruits, if he could have mentioned an even greater allowance of Mezonos. This is unlike the understanding of Rav Levin in Hearos Ubiurim Ohalei Torah 1043 p. 44 who desires to learn in Admur that before Micnha and Musaf, only Hamotzi is forbidden.
See regarding the prohibition of Davening when under the influence of alcohol: Admur 99:1-4 and 185:5; Makor Chayim 99:1; Ketzos Hashulchan 20:13; Piskeiy Teshuvos 99 footnote 17