Overview: Can Something Kosher Come from a Treifah?
Chullin 58 continues the theme from daf 57 (survival), but now shifts to a new question:
What is the status of eggs or offspring from a treifah animal?
The daf introduces a major halachic principle:
זה וזה גורם (two causes) — when something is produced by both a permitted and forbidden source.
Eggs of a Treifah Bird
Inside the Bird at the Time
The Gemara rules:
- Eggs that were already forming inside the bird when it became a treifah →
❌ Forbidden
Reason:
- They are considered part of the mother’s body
Eggs Produced Later
For eggs laid afterward:
- If fertilized by a kosher male →
âś… Permitted
Why?
Because they come from two causes:
- Treifah mother (forbidden)
- Kosher father (permitted)
This is the classic case of:
Zeh v’zeh gorem → permitted
Exception – No Male Involved
If the egg is produced without a male (from heat, etc.):
- It comes only from the treifah →
❌ Forbidden
Offspring (Vlad) of a Treifah
Machloket: Rabbi Eliezer vs Rabbi Yehoshua
Case:
- The mother became a treifah
- Then became pregnant
- Rabbi Eliezer → offspring is forbidden
- Rabbi Yehoshua → offspring is permitted
What Are They Arguing About?
They argue about the same principle:
- Rabbi Eliezer →
Zeh v’zeh gorem = ❌ forbidden - Rabbi Yehoshua →
Zeh v’zeh gorem = ✅ permitted
Big Chiddush
Even according to the lenient view:
The offspring can be so kosher that it could even be offered as a korban (in theory)!
The Gemara discusses korban to show:
the extreme strength of the lenient opinion
Signs That Something Is Not a Treifah
The daf also continues the discussion from 57:
If there is doubt whether an animal is a treifah, certain signs can prove it is kosher:
- It lives 12 months
- It grows stronger
- It gives birth (for females)
These indicate:
It was never truly a treifah
Weak Creatures — Biology Principle
The Gemara states:
- Creatures without bones cannot survive 12 months
- Therefore:
- Worms found in stored fruit after 12 months are assumed to have formed later and are permitted
This ties back to the 12-month survival rule from daf 57.
“Kol Yater K’natul Dami” — Extra Limb Rule
Another important rule:
- An extra limb is treated like a missing limb
Examples:
- Extra or missing hind leg → can be treifah
This shows:
Structure must match the normal life-system of the animal
Conceptual Development
Chullin 58 deepens the sugya in a new direction:
- Daf 55–57: What makes something a treifah
- Daf 58: What happens after — reproduction, continuation
It introduces:
- The interaction between tumah (problem) and renewal (birth)
- The idea that new life can override old defects
Big Idea of the Daf
The central idea is:
New creation can break from its source
— even something born from a treifah can be kosher
(but only when a permitted factor is involved)
Final Summary
Chullin 58 analyzes the status of eggs and offspring from a treifah. Eggs already inside the animal become forbidden, but later eggs or offspring may be permitted if produced through both permitted and forbidden factors (זה וזה גורם). The daf also reinforces the 12‑month survival rule and explores how structure and biology impact halachic status, highlighting how new life interacts with prior defects.