Chapter 4: Chezkat Besari-The Status of Pareve products cooked/baked in meat/dairy

This article is an excerpt from our Sefer

Buy me here

Chapter 4: Chezkat Besari

The Status of Pareve products cooked/baked in meat/dairy

 Introduction:

This chapter, in continuation of the theme of Taaruvos discussed in previous chapters, focuses on the status of Pareve foods that have been cooked in a meat or dairy utensil, and whether these foods still remain Pareve and may be eaten with the opposite food. In modern terminology, such foods are often called “Chezkat Besari” or “Chezkat Chalavi,” a term which is not found in Poskim and has led to much confusion and misunderstanding of the status of Pareve foods that are cooked with meat or dairy utensils. As we will see, according to Halacha, there are cases in which the Pareve food remains Pareve and may be eaten with whatever food one desires, and cases in which we treat the food as the vessel in which it was cooked. A second subject explored in this chapter is the laws of Taaruvos of meat and milk caused through vessels that have made contact with each other through a hot liquid, such as if one washed meat and dairy vessels together in hot water while doing dishes. What is the Kashrus status of such vessels if this occurred? A third subject discussed is restriction applicable to salt being near meat or milk, and meat or milk being stored near each other.

 

1. The status of Pareve foods cooked in a meat pot or vice versa:

If a Pareve food was cooked in a meat or dairy pot [or was cut with a meat or dairy knife while the Pareve food was hot[1]] then the law regarding whether the food remains Pareve, and one may eat the Pareve food with the opposite type of food that the pot [or knife] belonged to, is dependent on the following factors:

  1. Was the Pareve food a Davar Charif or does it contain a Davar Charif?
  2. Was the pot [or knife] clean from residue of meat/milk?
  3. Is the pot [or knife] Ben Yomo?

*Important note: This Halacha is only discussing whether one may remove the Pareve food from the pot and then eat it with dairy or meat. According to all, one may never enter dairy or meat into a Pareve food that is currently cooking in an opposite type of pot, as explained in chapter 93 regarding the prohibition of cooking meat in a dairy pot and vice versa.

 

A. Pareve food is Charif:[2]

If a Pareve Charif/sharp food was cooked in a meat pot then even if the pot was clean and not Ben Yomo, the food becomes meaty and is forbidden to be eaten with milk.[3] Bedieved, if one cooked this sharp food with dairy, one requires 60x in the dairy food versus the sharp food in order for the dish to be Kosher. [Furthermore, if one poured this food while hot into a dairy pot, the dairy pot becomes forbidden.[4]]

A dish which contains sharp foods within its ingredients:[5] A food mixture which contains Charif ingredients is viewed in accordance to the majority ingredient of the mixture to determine its Charif status. If the majority of the food is not made up of sharp ingredients, then it is not considered sharp. [However, regarding sharp spices, so long as the spicy taste is felt within the dish it is considered spicy even if it is the minority of the food.[6] If, however, honey was added to the food, then it nullifies the sharpness of the sharp foods, and the mixture is no longer considered sharp.[7] If a Davar Charif was first cooked alone in the pot and only afterword’s one added the other ingredients, it has the status of a Davar Charif even if the other ingredients are majority.[8]]

Cooked non-Sharp food in pot that had Charif cooked in it:[9] If a meat pot had Charif cooked in it, it is nevertheless considered not Ben Yomo after 24 hours from its original meat use, and hence if Pareve food was cooked in it, it follows the laws explained in Halacha B-C.

Summary:

If a Pareve Charif/sharp food was cooked in a meat pot the food becomes meaty and is forbidden to be eaten with milk, and if one did so the milk requires 60x.

 

Q&A

What is the law if one cooked a sharp food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot and used a dairy vessel to mix it?[10]

If the dairy vessel is Ben Yomo everything is forbidden unless there is 60x in the food versus the vessel, in which case only the vessel is forbidden. If the vessel was not Ben Yomo, then if the sharp food was already cooked and no longer sharp by the time the dairy vessel was inserted, the food is Kosher while the dairy utensil must be Koshered. If the sharp food was still sharp by the time the vessel was inserted, everything is forbidden unless there is 60x in the food versus the vessel, in which case the vessel is to be Koshered and the food is Kosher.

If one cooked a Pareve food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot may he then cook it together with onions in a dairy pot?[11]

Yes, as explained in the end of this Halacha in the Q&A!

If one cooked lemon juice in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot may he drink it with milk?

No.

 

May a Davar Charif which soaked in a meat container be used for milk?[12]

It is forbidden to use Charif foods which soaked in a meat vessel [that has been used in the past for hot meat] for milk products, even if the meat vessel was not Ben Yomo.[13]

Pickles and Olives: If pickles and olives have been pickled to the point that they can only be eaten with bread, they are considered a sharp food even Bedieved.[14] If they are not this sharp, one may be lenient to consider them a non-sharp food after the fact if they have already been used for milk products.

May one use olives that were in a fleishig container for pizza?[15]

No.

B. Pareve food is not Charif but pot was not clean of meat/dairy:[16]

If the meat pot contained meat residue [i.e. fat and oil] upon the non-Charif Pareve food being cooked in it, then the Pareve food is meaty and may not be eaten with milk. If, however, the Pareve food contains 60x versus the meat residue, then the food remains Pareve [if the pot was not Ben Yomo, and according to the Michaber, even if it was Ben Yomo, as explained in Halacha C]. [In general, we assume that the Pareve food in the pot contains 60x versus the fat residue unless one knows for certain that it does not.[17] However, if one only cooked a small amount of Pareve in the pot, then we assume it does not contain 60x, unless one knows for certain that it does.[18]]

Do we assume a random vessel is dirty or clean?[19] A typical vessel that has been washed is considered to have been washed well, unless one knows for certain that it was not washed well. [Thus, if the vessel was removed from the cabinet or dish rack we assume it is clean from fat even if one did not consciously verify that it was clean. If, however, it was removed from the sink and was not washed, we assume it is dirty.]

 Q&A

If a hot Pareve food was placed on top of a cold meat vessel which contains meat fat, what is the law of the food?[20]

The Pareve food is considered meaty even if it contains 60x versus the fat being that the food only absorbs the fat into a Kelipa worth of itself, and it does not spread to become nullified in 60x.

Does leftover fat or oil residue on a vessel become not Ben Yomo after 24 hours?[21]

No.

C. Pareve food is not Charif and pot was clean but the pot is Ben Yomo:[22]

Some Poskim[23] rule that a Pareve non-Charif food [whether dry or with gravy[24]] which was cooked or baked/roasted[25] in a clean[26] meat pot/pan, remains Pareve and is permitted to be eaten with milk products, even if the pot was Ben Yom.[27] Other Poskim[28] rule that a Pareve food which was baked/roasted or cooked in a clean Ben Yomo meat pot or pan, is forbidden to be eaten with milk products, even if the food is not sharp.[29] Practically, the custom [of Ashkenazim[30]] is like this opinion and to initially prohibit eating or cooking such food with milk products.[31] However, Bedieved, if one already cooked it with milk products, the mixture is permitted [even if the food does not contain 60x].[32] [This applies whether the Pareve food was roasted or cooked in the meat pot.[33]]

Eating the Pareve food with dairy utensils: Pareve food which was cooked in a meat pot may be eaten with dairy utensils, even if the pot was Ben Yomo.[34] [The same applies vice versa. This applies even according to the stringent opinion above.[35]] However, one may not initially pour the hot Pareve food directly from the meat pot onto a milk utensil, rather a second utensil is to be used to transfer the food from the meat pot into the milk utensil.[36] [Possibly, this applies even if the dairy vessel is not Ben Yomo.[37]] However, if Bedieved one poured directly onto a dairy vessel, many Poskim[38] rule one may be lenient even regarding the vessel, even if both pots were Ben Yomo. However, according to the Rama[39], the dairy vessel is forbidden if the meat [and dairy vessel] are Ben Yomo.[40] If, however, one of the two was not Ben Yomo, everything is permitted Bedieved even according to the Rama.[41]

 Summary:

According to the Michaber and Sephardim, a Pareve non-Charif food which was cooked or baked in a clean meat pot or pan, remains Pareve and may be eaten with milk. According to the Rama and Ashkenazim, it is initially forbidden to eat it with milk products, although Bedieved, if one already cooked it with milk products, the mixture is permitted.

 

Q&A

If one cooked Pareve food in a dairy pot, may it be eaten together with Pareve food that was cooked in a meat pot?

Ø  Example: One cooked rice in a clean Ben Yomo dairy pot and non-Charif soup in a clean Ben Yomo meat pot, may they be eaten together during the meal?

It is permitted to eat a Nat Bar Nat dairy food with a Nat Bar Nat meat foods although one may not pour the content of either pot directly into each other.[42]

D. Pareve food is not Charif and pot was clean and is not Ben Yomo:[43]

If a Pareve non-Charif food was cooked in a clean non-Ben Yomo meat pot then the custom even according to the Rama, is to allow eating the Pareve food together with milk products even initially.[44]

 Q&A

May one even initially cook Pareve food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat it with the opposite food?

Some Poskim[45] rule it is forbidden to initially cook Pareve food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat the food with milk products, or vice versa. Other, Poskim[46], however, rule that it is permitted to do so even initially with intent to eat with the opposite food.[47] Practically, Sephardim may be lenient even initially[48], and Ashkenazim may be lenient in a time of need, such as if there is no other pot available.[49] According to all, if one already cooked the Pareve food in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat with milk, he may eat it with milk.[50] 

May one cook Pareve in a non-Ben Yomo meat pot in order to eat with dairy if he has no other pots available?[51]

Yes, as explained above.

Having a special water pot:[52]

Some are particular to have a special Pareve water pot for the sake of heating up water that will be used with other foods, and they do not heat up the water in a meat or dairy pot.

 

Final Summary:[53]

If one cooked Pareve food in a dairy pot then if the pot is Ben Yomo or one cooked a Davar Charif in the pot [in a way that is defined as a Davar Charif as explained above], such as onions or garlic, or the pot was dirty with dairy residue, then it is forbidden to eat the food together with meat. Nevertheless, one may eat the food on meat vessels if the pot was clean and the food is not defined as a Davar Charif. Likewise, one may eat the food during a meat meal. If the pot is clean, not Ben Yomo and does not include a Davar Charif, one may eat it together with meat.

 

Q&A

If one cooked Pareve food in a dairy pot, may it be eaten together with Pareve food that was cooked in a meat pot?

Ø  Example: One cooked rice in a dairy pot and soup in a meat pot, may they be eaten together during the meal?

Matters the Rav must verify from the asker: The answer to this question depends on whether the pots were Ben Yomo and whether a Davar Charif ingredient was cooked in the pots. Thus, when a Rav is addressed this question he must verify these matters. Were onions and garlic placed in the foods? Was lemon added? Even if a Davar Charif was cooked in the pot, one must verify whether it was cooked first plain, without the food and then had the food added to it, or if it was all cooked simultaneously or after the food already began cooking. If it was cooked plain and then one added the other ingredients it has the status of a Davar Charif.[54] If it was all cooked together then it does not have a status of a Davar Charif unless it is the majority ingredient[55] or is strongly felt in the food[56].

The Law: If one cooked a Davar Charif in both pots [in a way that is defined as a Davar Charif as explained above], such as onions or garlic, then it is forbidden to eat them together or during the same meal. [Thus if in the example the soup and rice were both cooked with onions, they may not be eaten in the same meal, even if both pots were not Ben Yomo.] If both pots are not Ben Yomo and do not include a Davar Charif they may be eaten together. If one of the pots contain a Davar Charif and the other does not, then if the other pot is Ben Yomo it is forbidden to be eaten together. If the other pot is not Ben Yomo it may be eaten together. If none of the pots contain Charif but one of the pots is Ben Yomo, then it may be eaten together. However one may not pour the Ben Yomo content into the non-Ben Yomo. If both pots did not contain a Davar Charif but both pots are Ben Yomo then it is permitted to eat the foods together, but one may not pour the content of either pot directly into the other pot.[57] See the chart below for a table of ruling and scenarios!

May a Nat Bar Nat food be cooked in a Davar Charif?[58]

Ø  Example: One cooked rice in a clean dairy pot may one heat it with onions in a meat pot?

Yes. It is permitted to do so even if the meat and dairy pot are Ben Yomo.[59]

2. The status of a hot Pareve food placed on a meat/dairy utensil:[60]

Cold Pareve food on hot plate/pot:[61] If a cold Pareve food was placed on a hot clean meat or dairy plate/pot, the food remains Pareve according to all opinions and may even initially be eaten with the opposite food. This applies even if the pot/plate was Ben Yomo.[62]

Hot Pareve food on cold plate/pot:[63] If a hot Pareve food was placed on a cold clean meat or dairy plate/pot, then the Pareve food remains Pareve and may be eaten with the opposite food. This applies even if the food was very hot and the plate was Ben Yomo.

Hot Pareve food on hot plate/pot:[64] If a hot Pareve food was placed on a hot[65] Keli Rishon clean Ben Yomo meat pot or plate, then according to the Rama the Pareve food becomes meaty and may not initially be eaten with dairy products. [However, Bedieved, it is permitted even according to the Rama. According to the Michaber it is permitted even initially. According to the Rashal, it is forbidden even Bedieved, unless it contains gravy.[66]]

May one initially place hot Pareve food onto a meat plate with intent to eat with dairy?[67] Lechatchilah, one may not place a hot Pareve food on a Ben Yomo dairy utensil if one intends to eat it with meat.[68]

Summary and Final Ruling:

If one placed a hot Pareve food on a meat or dairy vessel, the food remains Pareve unless the vessel was hot and Ben Yomo. If the Pareve food was hot but the plate was cold or vice versa, the food remains Pareve, although it is initially forbidden to do so if one plans to eat the food with the opposite food of the food type the vessel belongs to.

3. The status of Charif/sharp foods placed on a meat or milk plate:[69]

Cold spicy foods which were placed on a meat or dairy plate remain Pareve and may be used with the opposite food. [However, some Poskim[70] are initially stringent regarding a Charif food that contains moisture.]

4. The status of salt which was stored in a meat or dairy vessel:[71]

It is permitted to use salt that was stored in a meat vessel for milk products.[72] [This applies even if the salt had moisture.[73]] Nevertheless, some Poskim[74] rule that one who is stringent to avoid using this salt for the opposite food will be blessed, since there are those opinions who are initially stringent in this matter.[75] [Practically, one is initially to avoid storing salt in meat or dairy vessels if he plans to use them for the opposite food, although Bedieved it is permitted.[76]]

Summary:

It is permitted to use salt which was stored in a dairy vessel for meat products or vice versa and one who avoids doing so is blessed. However, practically, one is initially to avoid storing salt in meat or dairy vessels if he plans to use them for the opposite food, although Bedieved it is permitted.

5. The status of salt or vinegar which was placed near a milk product:[77]

A vessel which contain Kutach [or other milk products] is not to be placed near salt [which is designated as Pareve or meaty].[78] [This applies even if the vessels are not touching each other.[79]] This, however, only applies if both the dairy product and salt are in uncovered vessels.[80] [However, if either the salt or milk product is covered, then they may be placed near each other. Nonetheless, some Poskim[81] rule that one is not to place the two vessels near each other to the point that they are touching, even if they are both covered. Practically, one is to suspect for their opinion and not place salt and milk products near each other unless one is covered, and they are not touching.[82]]

Bedieved:[83] If one transgressed and left uncovered salt near uncovered milk, the salt nevertheless remains permitted to be eaten with meat.[84] [However, some Poskim[85] rule that if the dairy and salt vessels were touching each other, then the salt may not initially be used for meat, although Bedieved the meat remains Kosher. This stringency only applies if the vessels were made of earthenware, while if they were made of metal, everyone agrees that if one transgressed, the salt may even initially be used for meat.[86]]

Vinegar:[87] It is permitted to place a vessel which contains Kutach [or other milk products] near vinegar [which is designated as Pareve or meaty].[88]

 

Summary:

One may not place Pareve salt near meat and milk products if they are both uncovered or of they are touching.

6. The status of Pareve foods baked simultaneously with meat or cheese:[89]

Background: The subject of baking Pareve foods together with meat or cheese, and its subsequent status in whether it remains Pareve, is affected by many different aspects. These include: 1) Reiach, or the smell of the meat/cheese penetrating the Pareve. 2) Zeiah, which is the vapor of meat/cheese penetrating the Pareve.[90] 3) Mamashus, which is having the meat/cheese contact the Pareve contact that is in the oven and hence receive forbidden taste. In the types of ovens that existed in previous times, which were very large in size and/or contained a large hole [the size of a pot] which allowed the vapor to escape, there was no concern of Zeiah, although the other concerns were still relevant. [These typical medieval ovens did not contain a Zeiah concern as they were too large[91], or had a wide-open vent which released the vapor, and their only concern was that of Reicha.] However, our ovens today which are a small closed off box, contain a serious Kashrus concern of Zeiah upon the vapor of the food hitting the ceiling of the oven.[92] Accordingly, the status of a Pareve food cooked with meat/cheese in the same oven is as follows:

The law if foods uncovered:[93] If uncovered bread[94] or fish [or other Pareve food] was baked simultaneously with uncovered meat or dairy in the same oven, then the Pareve food becomes meaty/dairy and is forbidden to be eaten with the opposite food.[95] [If the food was then mixed with the opposite food, everything is forbidden unless it contains 60x.[96]]

Foods covered:[97] If both[98] the Pareve food and meat or dairy are properly covered to the point that they will not release vapor [and the oven was clean of any meat or dairy residue[99]], then the Pareve remains Pareve and may be eaten even initially for the opposite food. [If the Pareve food is doubly wrapped, such as two sheets of tinfoil wrapping, then the food remains Pareve even if the meat/dairy food is uncovered.[100]]

Summary:

If a Pareve and meat or milk food baked simultaneously in the same oven, the Pareve food becomes meaty/dairy unless the oven is clean, and both foods are properly covered to the point that they will not release vapor [or the Pareve food is covered in two coverings].

 

Q&A

May Pareve foods baked on the same stove top as meat/dairy be eaten with the opposite food?[101]

Yes, as they never came into contact with each other, and their vapors or Reiach do not mix.

7. The status of Pareve baked in a meat or dairy oven:[102]

Background: As explained in Halacha 5, modern ovens today contain a Zeiah prohibition. Accordingly, the roof and walls of an oven are saturated with taste of the foods cooked in it and receive a meat/milk status similar to that of a meat/dairy pot. Thus, if one cooks Pareve food in this oven, it is viewed similar  to having cooked Pareve in a meat or dairy pot, as explained in Halacha 1. This is in addition to the possibility of the oven containing meat or dairy residue which can release vapor and enter the food. The following is the practical ruling regarding this matter: 

Pareve is uncovered and meat or dairy residue in oven:[103] If one baked an uncovered Pareve food in a meat or milk oven that contains meat or milk residue, then the food becomes meaty/dairy and is forbidden to be eaten with the opposite food.[104]

Pareve is uncovered and oven is clean of residue:[105] If the Pareve food was not covered, but one cleaned the oven beforehand through preheating it[106], and there is thus no residue of meat or milk in the oven, then if the oven is not Ben Yomo of meat/dairy use, then the food remains Pareve.[107] If the oven is Ben Yomo, then if the Pareve food contains liquid and hence releases vapor, then [for Ashkenazim] it becomes meaty/dairy and may not be eaten with the opposite food.[108] If the food is dry [i.e. bread], then some Poskim[109] rule that that it remains Pareve even if the clean oven was Ben Yomo. However, other Poskim[110] rule that if the oven was Ben Yomo then all foods, including even baked dry foods become it becomes meaty/dairy and may not be eaten with the opposite food, although one may eat it before or afterwards.[111] Practically, one is to be stringent like this approach if possible and wait 24 hours from meat use prior to baking bread[112], however, in a time of need one may suffice with turning on the oven for 15 minutes and “Koshering” its walls from its Ben Yomo use, and then bake Pareve Challahs in the meat oven.[113]

Pareve is covered:[114] If the Pareve food was covered, and there is no residue of meat or dairy in the oven, then it may be eaten with the opposite food in all cases. [If the Pareve food is doubly wrapped, such as two sheets of tinfoil wrapping, then the food remains Pareve even if there was meat/dairy residue in the oven.[115]]

How to clean an oven of residue:[116] The only way a proper cleaning can be accomplished is through performing Libun [even Kal] inside of the oven. [This can be accomplished by turning the oven on to a hot temperature and having it burn out any leftover residue.[117]] It does not suffice to merely clean the oven with a sponge and water, without also turning it on and burning any leftover residue that is inside.[118]

Example of above

May one bake an uncovered cake in a meat oven if he plans to eat it with dairy?

If the oven is not Ben Yomo and is clean, one may do so. If the oven is not clean, one may not do so. If the oven is clean but is Ben Yomo, then some Poskim[119] rule that this matter depends on whether the batter is viewed as a liquid that releases vapor or as a solid. Some Poskim[120] rule cake batter is viewed as a dry food and hence it is permitted to eat it with dairy. However, practically, one is to be stringent as stated above and wait 24 hours from meat use prior to baking the cake, however, in a time of need, one may suffice with turning on the oven for 15 minutes and “Koshering” its walls from its Ben Yomo use, and then bake Pareve cake in the meat oven.

____________________________

[1] Chavas Daas 95:5; Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:4; Kaf Hachaim 95:23

[2] Rama 95:2; Implication of Aruch 24; Rashba 449; Admur 447:45; See also Michaber 103:6; Pischeiy Teshuvah 96:4

Other opinions-Ruling of Michaber: Some Poskim rule that according to the Michaber [mentioned in 96:1 regarding a knife which cut a Davar Charif that if it was not Ben Yomo it remains Pareve according to the first opinion then] if the pot was clean and not Ben Yomo, Bedieved if it was cooked with the opposite food it does not require nullification. [Hakashrus 10:113; See Kaf Hachaim 96:11] Other Poskim argue on the Rama’s conclusion based on Rashba and Aruch ibid and suggest that even according to the Rashba and Aruch who rule regarding a knife that Charif turns non-Ben Yomo into Ben Yomo, by a pot the rule is different and Charif does not make non-Ben Yomo into Ben Yomo. The reason is because the concept of Nat Bar Nat still applies even by Charif, and hence only when there are two Nats, such as by a knife, do we say the taste is Beiyn, however when there are three Nats, such as the case in the case of a pot, then it is permitted. Practically, this opinion concludes that by definite Charif one is to be stringent like the Rama while by questionable Charif one may be lenient. [Makom Shmuel 89, brought in Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:4]

Is the concept of a Davar Charif a Biblical or Rabbinical concept? See Chapter 5 Halacha 3!

[3] The reason: As the sharp food enriches the meaty taste of the pot and effects that its taste be considered Beiyn [direct taste from meat] and is thus no longer considered Nat Bar Nat. [Shach 95:7; Admur ibid that it becomes Tam Rishon]

[4] Admur 447:45

[5] Rama 95:2; Taz 103:9

[6] Taz 103:9; Darkei Teshuvah 95:41

[7] Toras Chatas 85:21; Halacha Pesuka 95:12; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:20; Kaf Hachaim 95:30

[8] See chapter 96 Halacha 5 in Q&A!

[9] Shach 122:2

[10] See Hakashrus 10:117

[11] Pleisi 96:4; Peri Megadim 96; Zivcheiy Tzedek 96:32; Kaf Hachaim 96:46

[12] Admur 447:27

[13] The reason: As it is considered that it was cooked in the vessel [Kavush Kemevushal], and when a Davar Charif is cooked in a meat vessel it is considered meaty even if it was not Ben Yomo. According to some opinions, even if it only stayed there for 18 minutes it is considered cooked in the vessel. According to others, it is considered cooked if it remained there for 24 hours. [See Admur 447:27 who writes 24 hours]

[14] Daas Torah 96:2

[15] Sefer Hakashrus 10:120

[16] Michaber 95:1

[17] Issur Viheter 33:2; Minchas Yaakov 57:11; P”M 95 S.D. 1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:11; Kaf Hachaim 95:13

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that we do not assume the food contains 60x the residue, unless one knows for certain. [Peri Toar 95:3]

[18] Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:11; Kaf Hachaim 95:14

[19] Shach 95:1; Kneses Hagedola 95:23; Peri Chadash 95:2; Minchas Yaakov 58:17; Lechem Hapanim 95:1; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:1; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Beis Yitzchak 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:6; Kaf Hachaim 95:6

[20] Minchas Yaakov 57:11; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:13; Kaf Hachaim 95:16

[21] Implication of Peri Chadash 95:18; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:36; Kaf Hachaim 95:55;

[22] 95:1; See Chulin 111b; Beis Yosef 95 and Aruch Hashulchan 95:1-14 for all the opinions in Rishonim; See Hakashrus 1:35; 2:19

[23] Michaber 95:1; Rambam Machalos Assuros 9:23; Rashi, brought in Tur 95:1 [unlike understanding of Rivan]; Rabbeinu Tam; Riy Hazakein; Sefer Hateruma 61, and Rosh Chulin Kol Habasar 29, brought in Tur ibid regarding cooking [as opposed to roasting]

According to the Michaber, may one initially cook Pareve foods in a meat vessel in order to eat with Milk? Even according to the Michaber, it is initially forbidden to cook Pareve food in a Ben Yomo meat pot with intention to eat that Pareve food with dairy products. [Admur 494:16; Shach 95:3; Taz 95:4; Rabbeinu Yerucham 15:28, brought [and negated] in Beis Yosef 95:1 in Bedek Habayis; Semak 213 and 198, brought in Beis Yosef ibid; Peri Chadash 95:1; Minchas Kohen 1:12; Lechem Hapanim 95:3; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:3; Kreisi 95:1; Erech Hashulchan 95:5; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:2; Ben Ish Chaiy Korach 13; Kaf Hachaim 95:1 and 21 that the Michaber ibid retracted from his ruling in the Beis Yosef which was written before his Shulchan Aruch [see Yad Melachi 15; Chida in Shem Hagedolim Sefarim 75], and therefore the ruling in Michaber ibid is written in the form of Bedieved; Rav Shalom Mashash in Mizrach Shemesh 95 and Shemesh Umagen 1:8; 2:42] Thus, one may not heat water in a Ben Yomo meat pot for the sake of kneading dough, as one often eats bread with dairy. [Devar Moshe Y.D. 9; Shulchan Gavoa 1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:3; Kaf Hachaim 95:2] The same applies vice versa. However, some Poskim  rule that according to the Michaber it is permitted to even initially cook Pareve foods in Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat with dairy. [Beis Yosef 95:1 in Bedek Habayis, printed and his commentary on the Tur, writes that one may even initially cook in the Ben Yomo pot with intent to eat with the opposite food [However, the Poskim ibid say the Beis Yosef retracted this ruling in his Shulchan Aruch and rules that it is only allowed Bedieved.]; Maharah Even Tava in Shut Tashbatz Chut Hameshulash, Hatur Hasheleshi 33; Beis David 42; Pnei David Papau 2; Beis Yehuda 2:92; Yabia Omer 4:4; 94; Rav Yitzchak Yosef; See Hakashrus 1:35; 2:19] Even according to the first approach, if one already cooked the Pareve food in a Ben Yomo meat pot with intent to eat with dairy, he may go ahead and eat it with dairy. [Peri Chadash 95:1; Lechem Hapanim 95:3; Kreisi 95:1; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:5; Kaf Hachaim 95:5 unlike Minchas Kohen 1:12] 

[24] Issur Viheter 34:1; Kneses Hagedola 95:2; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:2; Kaf Hachaim 95:7

[25] See Tur 95 and Beis Yosef 95:1 for opinions in Rishonim [Sefer Hateruma 61; Semak 213; Semag 140-141] who differentiate between cooked and roasted and rule that we permit only cooked foods and not roasted foods, as by cooked there are three Nat Bar Nat, while by roasted there are only two. However, the Beis Yosef ibid concludes that Lehalacha it is implied from the other Rishonim [Rambam; Rashi; Tosfos] that there is no difference at all, and so he rules here in the Shulchan Aruch.

[26] A pot is assumed to be cleaned from any meat residue unless one knows for certain that it was not cleaned well. [Shach 95:1; Kneses Hagedola 95:23; Peri Chadash 95:2; Minchas Yaakov 58:17; Admur 447:51; 452:7; Lechem Hapanim 95:1; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:1; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Beis Yitzchak 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:6; Kaf Hachaim 95:6]

[27] The reason and explanation: The meat taste that the Pareve food contains has traveled from the meat to the pot and then from the pot to the Pareve food. This is called Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. The reason that this meat taste is not considered problematic with dairy is because the meat taste which the Pareve food absorbed from the Ben Yomo pot is so indirect and diluted that it does not have sufficient intensity to merge with milk and cause a fusion of Basar Bechalav. [Taz 95:1; Kneses Hagedola 95:24 in name of many Poskim; Peri Chadash 95:3; Lechem Hapanim 95:2; Chochmas Adam 48:17; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:15; Kaf Hachaim 95:8]

[28] Opinion in Rama 95:2; Rivan in name of Rashi; Issur Viheter Aruch Klal 34 [brought in Darkei Moshe 95:1]; Mordechai; Or Zarua; Rabbeinu Yerucham 15:28, brought in Beis Yosef [Bedek Habayis 95:1]; Shach 95:3; Peri Chadash 95:4; Lechem Hapanim 95:4; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:3; Kreisi 95:4

[29] The reason: The reason for why the Rama is stringent is because the Rama rules Nat Bar Nat Dihetera is initially forbidden.

[30] Kaf Hachaim 95:21; However, the custom of the Sephardim is like the opinion of Michaber

[31] Rama ibid; Semak; Issur Viheter; Peri Chadash 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:6

Ruling of Admur: Admur in 494:16 rules that if one used a meat/dairy vessel [i.e. Marda] to remove bread from an oven then nevertheless the food remains Pareve and may be eaten with milk/meat, as it is Nat Bar Nat Dihetera, as explained in chapters 94 and 95. Vetzaruch Iyun, as here the Rama rules that it is forbidden to eat such food with meat as we hold that Nat Bar Nat is initially forbidden. Several suggestions have been offered into how to understand Admur: 1) Perhaps Admur’s case is an exception as when bread is placed on a meat/dairy vessel it is only penetrated a Kelipa’s worth. 2) The Rama ibid is only stringent by food that was cooked in a vessel, while Admur is referring to a vessel that contacted a food, which has a more lenient status as explained in Rama 95:2, brought in Halacha 4. 3) Perhaps Admur rules, unlike Shach, that even if both the food and vessel are hot, the food remains Pareve. 4) Perhaps Admur is referring to the letter of the law of why a decree should not be made to require one to use a Pareve Marda to remove the bread. [See Shaareiy Yoreh Deah p. 317; Piskeiy Admur Hazakein p. 194; Hearos Ubiurim Oholei Torah 655 p. 25]

[32] Rama ibid; Semak; Aruch; Taz 95:4 that one who is lenient like the Rama has not lost out; Admur 494:16 [that we only suspect for Nat Bar Nat Lechatchilah]; Peri Chadash 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:6

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that Pareve food which was roasted in a Ben Yomo meat pot, is forbidden to be eaten with milk products and even Bedieved the mixture is forbidden unless there is 60x versus in the milk versus the food. [Rashal Issur Viheter Shelo on Shaareiy Dura; Yam Shel Shlomo Kol Habasar 63, brought in Shach 95:4; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:4 in name of Poskim; Kaf Hachaim 95:22 concludes that one who is stringent like the Rashal in a case that does not involve a great loss, is blessed.] The above Poskim are only stringent regarding a roasted food. However, a food that is cooked in liquid inside of a meat pot, or a food that is roasted in a meat pot that is Ben Yomo from meat that was cooked in liquid, is permitted Bedieved if it became mixed with dairy. [Chavas Daas 95:5; Pischeiy Teshuvah 95:4; Kaf Hachaim 95:2]

[33] Peri Chadash 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:6; See opinions in Beis Yosef 95:1

[34] Rama ibid; Semak 213; Semag 140-141; Taz 95:5; Lechem Hapanim 95:8; Biur Hagra 95:8; Chulin 111b regarding fish

[35] Kaf Hachaim 95:24; See Chulin 111b that fish that were placed on a meat plate may be eaten with dairy, and this applies according to all opinions

[36] Shach 95:5 based on Rama 95:3; Kaf Hachaim 95:27

[37] So can be understood from Taz 95:13 who rules this way on Bedieved; Likewise, the Rama 95:3 simply states not to pour into a dairy vessel and does not stipulate whether its Ben Yomo or not. Likewise, Shach 95:5 also does not differentiate in this matter when discussing the stringent opinion of the Rama and implies that it may never be poured into any vessel, whether Ben Yomo or not. Hence certainly one should initially avoid the question.

[38] Michaber 94:9; Toras Chatas 57:12 that is permitted from letter of law; Shach 95:5 and 17; Peri Chadash 95:5; Issur Viheter; Bach 95:4; Masas Binyamin 2 “Whoever is stringent is doing a strange act”; Lechem Hapanim 95:7; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:5; Kreisi 95:5; Kaf Hachaim 95:27; 48

[39] Rama 95:3 explicitly prohibits Bedieved; Shach ibid that so is opinion of Rama here as well, unlike understanding of Bach ibid in Rama; However, Rama in Toras Chatas 57:12 rules one may be lenient in a time of need or great loss; So also concludes P”M 95 S.D. 5

[40] If also the dairy vessel was Ben Yomo then both the food and the dairy vessel would be forbidden, as rules the Rama in 95:3. However, the meat pot would remain permitted in all cases. [P”M 95 M.Z. 13]

[41] Taz 95:13; P”M 95 M”Z 13

Analysis on opinion of Rama: This ruling in Taz ibid in his opinion applies even according to the Rama as the Rama himself rules in the case of washing pots that if one is not Ben Yomo it is permitted, and thus certainly here. However, Tzaruch Iyun from the wording of the Rama ibid who simply states not to pour into a dairy vessel and does not stipulate whether its Ben Yomo or not. Likewise, Shach 95:5 also does not differentiate in this matter when discussing the stringent opinion of the Rama and implies that it may never be poured into any vessel, whether Ben Yomo or not. Now, why would the Rama possibly hold that there is a problem with the bottom vessel if it is not Ben Yomo if even he rules that when washing them in a Keli Rishon the non-Ben Yomo is Kosher? A suggestion could be that it is similar to the case in Rama 94:5 where one used a Ben Yomo spoon for a non-Ben Yomo pot and there the custom is to prohibit the non-Ben Yomo pot, even though from the letter of the law it is permitted, and perhaps the same applies here. Vetzaruch Iyun!

[42] The reason: As this is a case of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera meeting a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera and what precedent do we have anywhere to say that the Rama forbids initially even in such a case. The Rama’s stringency was discussing only a case of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with actual Taam! Furthermore, the Rama rules one may even initially eat the Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with Nat Bar Nat Deisura, as he rules one may eat it the Pareve food with a dairy vessel even if it is Ben Yomo! Likewise he rules one may wash clean Ben Yomo dishes one after the other in Keli Rishon [Vetzaruch Iyun if this is even Lechatchilah in Rama] Thus, certainly he would be lenient in this case which involves a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera! Furthermore, based on above one can even enter one of the foods into another bowl and then enter it into the other food while still inside its Ben Yomo pot as then it is Nat Bar Nat Deissura meeting a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera which is similar to the case of the vessel. Vetzaruch Iyun!

[43] Rama 95:2

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that initially one may not eat Pareve foods cooked in a non-Ben Yomo meat vessel together with milk. [Rashal Issur Viheter Shelo on Shaareiy Dura; Yam Shel Shlomo Kol Habasar 63, brought in Taz 95:4]

[44] The reason: The reason for this is because the taste of the pot is considered spoiled and is Nat Bar Nat and thus we are lenient even initially.

[45] Devar Moshe Y.D. 9; Chochmas Adam 48:2

[46] Beis David Y.D. 42; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:4; Kaf Hachaim 95:3

[47] The reason: As in such a case we have two reasons for leniency; 1) The pot is not Ben Yomo 2) The meat taste is Nat Bar Nat. [Kaf Hachaim ibid]

[48] Zivcheiy Tzedek ibid; Kaf Hachaim ibid; Hakashrus 1:36

[49] Chochmas Adam ibid; Koveitz Mibeis Levi 4:179-66; Hakashrus 1:36; 10:95; See Rama 89:3 and Shach there

[50] Peri Chadash 95:1; Lechem Hapanim 95:3; Kreisi 95:1; Kehilas Yehuda 95:1; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:5; Kaf Hachaim 95:5

[51] Chochmas Adam 48:1

[52] See Shulchan Gavoa 1; Kaf Hachaim 95:4

[53] Hakashrus 10:94

[54] Darkei Teshuvah 95:39

[55] Rama 95:2

[56] Darkei Teshuvah 95:40

[57] The reason: As this is a case of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera meeting a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera and what precedent do we have anywhere to say that the Rama forbids initially even in such a case. The Rama’s stringency was discussing only a case of Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with actual Taam! Furthermore, the Rama rules one may even initially eat the Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with Nat Bar Nat Deisura, as he rules one may eat it the Pareve food with a dairy vessel even if it is Ben Yomo! Likewise he rules one may wash clean Ben Yomo dishes one after the other in Keli Rishon [Vetzaruch Iyun if this is even Lechatchilah in Rama] Thus, certainly he would be lenient in this case which involves a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera with a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera! Furthermore, based on above one can even enter one of the foods into another bowl and then enter it into the other food while still inside its Ben Yomo pot as then it is Nat Bar Nat Deissura meeting a Nat Bar Nat Dihetera which is similar to the case of the vessel. Vetzaruch Iyun!

[58] Pleisi 96:4; Zivcheiy Tzedek 96:32; Kaf Hachaim 96:46

[59] The reason: As Charif does not have ability to resurrect the Nat Bar Nat taste in a food. [Poskim ibid] Seemingly this applies even according to the Rama who is initially stringent by Nat Bar Nat, as the Rama even initially permits eating the food with the opposite utensil.

[60] Rama 95:2; See Admur 494:16 regarding hot bread that was removed from an oven with a dairy vessel [i.e. Marda] that the food nevertheless remains Pareve and may be eaten with either milk or meat; See Chulin 111b; Beis Yosef 95 and Aruch Hashulchan 95:1-14 for all the opinions in Rishonim

[61] Rama 95:2 as explained in Shach 95:6; Peri Chadash 95:8; Lechem Hapanim 95:10; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:7; Kreisi 95:6; P”M 95 S.D. 6; Chavas Daas 95:7; Kaf Hachaim 95:28

Contradiction from 94:8 and 105:3: Regarding how the ruling here does not contradict the ruling of Michaber in 105:3 [and Admur 451:56] that Tatah Gavar applies by vessels and hence if the vessel is hot, the entire Pareve, or at least a Netila’s worth, should become dairy or meaty, seemingly this is because by meat and milk it is a case of Nat Bar Nat, and hence even according to the Rama we are more lenient. Another suggestion is that in truth, the taste which is transferred when either the food or plate is cold is not the “Ikkur Hataam” and hence is not potent enough to deem the Pareve as dairy or meaty. [See P”M 95 S.D. 6 who answers the contradiction this way; See Kreisi 95:6 who brings this contradiction]

[62] The reason: As the milk taste that has entered into the bread is Nat bar Nat Dihetera. [Admur ibid]

[63] Rama 95:2 as explained in Shach 95:6; Admur 494:16; Peri Chadash 95:8; Lechem Hapanim 95:10; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:7; Kreisi 95:6; P”M 95 S.D. 6; Chavas Daas 95:7; Kaf Hachaim 95:28

Contradiction from 94:8: Regarding how the ruling here does not contradict the ruling of Michaber in 94:8 that that if hot Issur/cheese fell onto a Ben Yomo vessel,  the cheese is forbidden a Kelipa’s worth, and hence here too the Pareve should become dairy or meaty at least a Kelipa’s worth, seemingly this is because by meat and milk it is a case of Nat Bar Nat, and hence even according to the Rama we are more lenient. Another suggestion is that in truth, the taste which is transferred when either the food or plate is cold is not the “Ikkur Hataam” and hence is not potent enough to deem the Pareve as dairy or meaty. [See P”M 95 S.D. 6 who answers the contradiction this way; See Kreisi 95:6 who brings this contradiction]

[64] Shach 95:6; Peri Chadash 95:8; Lechem Hapanim 95:10; Beis Lechem Yehuda 95:7; Kreisi 95:6 [see there for contradiction in Shach from 94:33]; P”M 95 S.D. 6; Chavas Daas 95:7; Kaf Hachaim 95:28

Opinion of Admur: Admur 494:16 rules regarding hot bread that was removed from an oven with a dairy vessel [i.e. Marda] that the food nevertheless remains Pareve and may be eaten with either milk or meat as it is Nat Bar Nat Dihetera. This implies that even if both the vessel and food are hot it remains Pareve. [See Piskeiy Yoreh Deah p. 193]

[65] Such as if it had been removed from the fire.

[66] P”M 95 S.D. 5; Kaf Hachaim 95:28

[67] Taz 95:4; Admur 494:16 that Lechatchilah one may not remove the bread with a Ben Yomo dairy utensil if one knows he will be eating it with meat.

[68] The reason: As it is forbidden to initially cause Nat Bar Nat. [Admur ibid]

[69] Taz 96:3 Kneses Hagedola 96:4; Lechem Hapanim 96:6; Beis Lechem Yehuda 96:4; P”M 96 M.Z. 3 [although writes that possibly Lechatchilah one is not to use it with the opposite food]; Halacha Pesuka 96:1; Kaf Hachaim 96:6

[70] P”M ibid; See Shach 91:3 and 121:10; P”M 91 S.D. 3

[71] Michaber 95:7

[72] The reason: As salt does not have the ability to remove taste that is absorbed within the walls of a vessel. [Shach 95:25]

[73] P”M 95 S.D. 25; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:49; Kaf Hachaim 95:70

[74] Rama ibid; See Admur 447:56; See Piskeiy Yoreh Deah p. 208

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule that there is no blessing granted for being stringent to avoid using the salt for milk products. Nevertheless, those who have separate milk and meat vessels for salt are praised as at times one removes salt with dirty hands. [Taz 95:18; Rashal Kol Habasar 81; Lechem Hapanim 95:32; Chavas Daas 95:25; P”M 95 S.D. 25; Beis Yitzchak 95:39; Aruch Hashulchan 95:26; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:50; Kaf Hachaim 95:71]

[75] The reason: As some Poskim rule that the salt has ability to extract taste from the vessel [Admur ibid] Alternatively, this is because we suspect the vessel was not completely clean. [Shach 95 in Nekudos Hakesef]

[76] P”M 95 S.D. 25; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:49; Kaf Hachaim 95:70

[77] 95:5; Chulin 112a

[78] Michaber ibid; Chulin ibid

The reason: This is due to worry that perhaps milk will fall into the salt and it will not become nullified and one will then come to use the salt with meat. [Rashi Chulin 112a; Taz 95:16; Shach 95:22; Beis Yosef 95; Peri Chadash 95:20; Kaf Hachaim 95:60] Alternatively, the reason is because salt has ability to suck the milk flavor from the nearby vessel. [Rambam, brought in Peri Toar 95:7; P”M 95 M,Z, 16; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:41; Kaf Hachaim 95:61]

Placing temporarily: Seemingly, it is permitted to place the vessels near each other even if uncovered if one plans to move them apart right away. [Peri Toar 95:7; Peri Chadash 95:21] However, perhaps the Sages did not  differentiate in their decree. [Peri Chadash ibid; Kaf Hachaim 95:62]

[79] Reason of Rashi ibid; Peri Toar 95:7; P”M 95 M,Z, 16; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:41; Kaf Hachaim 95:61

[80] Rama ibid; Implication of Rashi ibid

[81] Reason of Rambam; Peri Toar 95:7; P”M 95 M,Z, 16; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:41; Kaf Hachaim 95:61

[82] Peri Toar 95:7; P”M 95 M”Z, 16; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:41; Kaf Hachaim 95:61; See Admur 462:20; Piskeiy Yoreh Deah p. 206

[83] Rama 95:5

[84] The reason: As we do not assume any milk has spilled into the salt [Rama ibid] as Ein Machzikin Issura. [Gr”a 95:25; Kaf Hachaim 95:62]

[85] Kneses Hagedola 95:9 in accordance to reason of Rambam; Kaf Hachaim 95:64

[86] Erech Hashulchan 95:19; Zivcheiy Tzedek 95:44; Kaf Hachaim 95:65

[87] Michaber ibid

[88] The reason: As even if the milk falls into the vinegar, it will become nullified in 60x. [Rashi Chulin 112a; Taz 95:16; Shach 95:22; Beis Yosef 95; Peri Chadash 20]

[89] Michaber 97:3; See “A Semicha Aid for Learning the Laws of Taaruvos” Chapter 108 for a full analysis of this subject!

[90] There are two possible ways of understanding the prohibition of Zeiah: 1) Due to Nitzuk Chibur [See Admur 451:41 and Levush 93 who learns that the vapor prohibits due to the law of Nitzuk Chibur] 2) Due to Mamashus [See P”M 92 M.Z. 29 and O.C. 441 A.A. 44 and Yad Yehuda 92:52 who learns that the prohibition of Zeiah is due to Mamashus falling back inside.]

[91] A large oven negates a Zeiah concern as a) It dissipates the Zeiah evenly everywhere, and by the time it reaches the oven roof, there may be no vapor left; b) the oven roof would not get hot to the point of Yad Soledes, and the vapor was below Yad Soledes by the time it hit the oven, thus avoid any issue of Zeiah. This applies even if the oven contains no vents during the cooking or baking.

[92] See Igros Moshe Y.D. 1:40 in length for the Zeiah concerns in our ovens and that they have the same status as a pan placed over two uncovered foods, brought in Rama 108:1; Maharsham 3:208; Minchas Yitzchak 5:20; Chelkas Yaakov 2:136; Kinyan Torah 1:24; Badei Hashulchan 92:166; Darkei Halacha p. 242

The reason: As the roofing is very close to the food and it is hence just like the case of a cover on two pots. Now, this prohibition of Zeiah is either due to Nitzuk Chibur [See Admur 451:41 and Levush 93 who learns that the vapor prohibits due to the law of Nitzuk Chibur] or due to Mamashus [See P”M 92 M.Z. 29 and O.C. 441 A.A. 44 and Yad Yehuda 92:52 who learns that the prohibition of Zeiah is due to Mamashus falling back inside.] Thus, although some Poskim entertain that perhaps our ovens today do not have a Mamashus prohibition, as the vapor will not fall back down [Shut Beis Hayotzer], nevertheless, it would still be forbidden due to Nitzuk Chibur.

[93] Michaber ibid; Rama 108:1; See “A Semicha Aid for Learning the Laws of Taaruvos” Chapter 108 Halacha 2I and 3A for a full analysis of this subject!

[94] This refers to a case that the bread nevertheless remains Kosher, such as it was made into a special shape, or is a small amount. See Chapter 6!

[95] The reason: As a) Reicha: We rule that initially one must suspect that the smell of a food penetrates another food and transfers taste into it. Thus, since one is able to eat the Pareve food plain, or with the food it was baked with, therefore it has the status of Lechatchilah and may not be eaten with the opposite food. [Shach 97:4; 108:2; Chavas Daas 97:10; P”M 97 S.D. 4; Aruch Hashulchan 97:13; Kehilas Yehuda 97:3; Zivcheiy Tzedek 97:27; Kaf Hachaim 97:39] However, Bedieved, due to this reason alone, if this food became mixed with the opposite food, everything remains permitted, if Zeiah is not applicable. Furthermore, this worry of Reicha only applies if the oven was small, or was large but closed, and neither food was covered, If, however, one of the foods were covered, or if the oven was large and open, then the food remains Pareve and may be eaten with the opposite food. [Michaber 97:3] b) Zeiah: In modern ovens today, the vapor of the meat/milk have nowhere to escape or dissipate due to the small size of the ovens and therefore the Pareve food absorbs actual Mamashus vapor from the meat/milk, and becomes meaty/dairy. This would apply even if one of the foods are covered [but not both] and this would apply even Bedieved, that if one mixed the once “Pareve” food with the opposite food, 60x is required. [Michaber and Rama 92:8; Tur 92 in name of Rosh Kalal 20:26] 

[96] See Michaber and Rama 92:8; Tur 92 in name of Rosh Kalal 20:26

[97] Michaber ibid

[98] If only one food was covered: See Admur 447:10 and Michaber 108:1 that it suffices for even one of the foods to be covered, however, that is regarding Reicha. However, regarding Zeiah, so long as the vapor of one of the foods hits the other food, it is forbidden, and thus both foods must be covered. Accordingly, if either the Pareve or meat/milk food is uncovered, then seemingly the Pareve food becomes meaty/dairy as it is similar to the case of Rama 92:8 where the uncovered milk pot prohibits the even covered meat pot, as the vapor travels towards it. Similarly here, the vapor travels from the meat to the covered Pareve, and makes it meaty. [See chapter 95 Halacha 1 in Q&A regarding if we apply Nat Bar Nat in such a case] Furthermore, even if the meat or milk was covered while the Pareve was uncovered it becomes meaty/dairy as perhaps the vapor of the uncovered travels to the covered food, becomes meaty, and then returns back to the uncovered food and makes it meaty. [See Peri Toar 92:16; P”M 92 M.Z. 29; Degul Mirivava 92 regarding that the dairy uncovered pot also becomes forbidden even if the meat pot was covered.] This especially applies according to Admur 451:41 [and Levush 93] who learns that the vapor prohibits due to the law of Nitzuk Chibur, and hence it is as if one poured meat onto a Ben Yomo dairy pot, in which the Rama 95:3 rules it is forbidden. [This is unlike the P”M ibid and O.C. 441 A.A. 44 and Yad Yehuda 92:52 who learns that the prohibition of Zeiah is due to Mamashus falling back inside.] Vetzaruch Iyun from Kaf Hachaim 108:32 who explains that the Zeiah case which prohibits is if both the Heter and Issur are uncovered.

[99] Otherwise, the vapor of the residue will penetrate the covered Pareve, as explained in Rama ibid

[100] The reason: As the vapor only becomes absorbed in the external covering, and the internal covering does not absorb from the external one, being there is no moisture in-between, and is similar to two dry pots touching each other. [See Taz 92:29; 97:3]

[101] Kehilas Yehuda 97:3; Zivcheiy Tzedek 97:26; Kaf Hachaim 97:37

[102] See Igros Moshe 1:40; Pischeiy Halacha p. 27; 157; Kinyan Torah 1:24; Minchas Yitzchak 5:20; Hakashrus 1:39-40

[103] See Michaber 97:1 regarding bread and 97:3 regarding all Pareve; See 108:1 regarding vapor; Hakashrus 1:39

[104] The reason: As the residue releases vapor and Reiach which becomes absorbed within the Pareve food and makes it meaty or dairy.

[105] See Igros Moshe 1:40; Pischeiy Halacha p. 27; 157; Hakashrus 1:40; Kinyan Torah 1:24; Minchas Yitzchak 5:20 or “A Semicha Aid for Learning the Laws of Taaruvos” chapter 108 Halacha 2I and 3A

[106] Kinyan Torah ibid writes that one is to simply turn the oven on for some time prior to baking the Pareve food and this will verify that any leftover food in the oven has become destroyed.

[107] See Igros Moshe 1:40; Pischeiy Halacha p. 27; 157; Hakashrus 1:40

[108] This follows the ruling of those Poskim who rule that Nat Bar Nat is initially forbidden. [See Rama 95:2; Halacha 1 above]

Other opinions-Sephardic custom: According to the Sephardic custom, and the Poskim who rule that Nat Bar Nat is initially permitted, the food remains Pareve even if it is a liquid. [See Michaber 95:1]

[109] Igros Moshe 1:40; This follows those Poskim who rule that dry foods do not release a problematic vapor: Toras Chatas 35:6 [See Minchas Yaakov ibid]; Masas Moshe 4:30; P”M O.C. Hanhagos Horaos Issur Viheter Seder Sheiyni 37, brought in Pischeiy Teshuvah 92:6 that only liquids release vapor; Beis Meir 461; Poskim in Darkei Teshuvah 92:164; Igros Moshe 1:40 unless one sees that it released vapor; See Tzemach Tzedek ibid who brings the P”M but then negates his conclusion as being not substantive; See Admur 451:42 regarding a Chararah who states the pot requires Libun because it touches it most of the time, and does not mention the aspect of Zeiah [brought in Tur and Bach ibid], however seemingly, this is simply because Admur is explaining why it needs Libun, and not simply Hagala due to the vapor; Likewise, see Admur 447:9 who permits

[110] See Pischeiy Halacha p. 27; 157; Hakashrus 1:40

[111] The reason: As according to most Poskim, even dry foods release vapor. [See Tur 451:15 regarding Charara “And it releases vapor”; Bach 451:13; M”A 451:30; Yad Yehuda 92 Aruch 53; Masas Binyamin 42:58; Chacham Tzvi 20; P”M 451 A.A. 30; Rivash 295; Tzemach Tzedek O.C. 43; Shoel Umeishiv Chamisha 4; Beis Shlomo Y.D. 1:162 and 164; Maharsham; Daas Sofer; Levushei Mordechai; Poskim in Darkei Teshuvah 92:164; Rav Elyashiv in Beis Yitzchak; See Peri Haretz Y.D. 2:14]

[112] It does not initially suffice to Kosher the oven before the 24 hours have passed through turning it on, as most modern oven walls are covered with enamel and require Libun Chamur. [See Admur 494:1 [and 461:1; 451:7 regarding Chametz] that an earthenware oven requires Libun Gamur to be Koshered from meat to milk and our oven interiors are plated with enamel which some Poskim rule have the same status as earthenware [Tuv Taam Vadaas Kama 183] However, if one has a self-cleaning oven, then it suffices for one to perform a self-cleaning cycle to clear it of its Ben Yomo status and bake Pareve bread.

[113] Minchas Yitzchak 5:20; Hakashrus 1:40

The reason: As some Poskim [See Piskeiy Teshuvos 451:49] rule that even enamel is Kosherable with Libun Kal, unlike earthenware, and here regarding Nat Bar Nat one may be lenient like their opinion.

[114] See Michaber 97:3

[115] The reason: As the vapor only becomes absorbed in the external covering, and the internal covering does not absorb from the external one, being there is no moisture in-between, and is similar to two dry pots touching each other. [See Taz 92:29; 97:3]

[116] Michaber 97:2

[117] Kinyan Torah 1:24

[118] Taz 97:4; Peri Chadash 97:4; Chavas Daas 97:9; Aruch Hashulchan 97:12; Kaf Hachaim 97:34]

The reason: As the fat does not clean off well and requires the oven to be lit in order to burn the fat. [Poskim ibid]

[119] See Igros Moshe 1:40

[120] See article from OU on this issue that cake batter is considered a dry food, hence steam is not an issue and the oven  does not need to be not Ben Yomo.

Was this article helpful?

Related Articles

Leave A Comment?