Chapter 91

1. Cold meat which came into contact with cold cheese:[1]

If cold meat and cold cheese touch each other, their area of contact is required to be washed [if one of the pieces was moist. If however both the cheese and meat are dry then one is not required to wash them[2] (if they appear clean)].

May one Lechatchilah allow meat and cheese to contact each other?[3] If one of the foods is wet then it is initially forbidden to allow them to contact each other.[4] However if one is accustomed to wash the foods [i.e. both the cheese and meat] before eating them, then it is allowed to be brought into contact even initially.[5] If both the cheese and meat are dry then contact is allowed even initially, as they do not require washing.[6]

Wrapping them together: It is permitted to wrap meat and cheese together in the same towel in a way that they will not come into contact with each other.

 

Q&A

May one place meat and dairy groceries inside the same bag?

Yes, as the meat and dairy are within wrapping.

 

May one place vegetables together with open meat, poultry or cheese?

If one is accustomed to wash the vegetables prior to their use, he may allow them to come into contact with meat even if he plans to use them for cheese, or vice versa.

 

May one place open frozen pastries together with open meat or cheese?

No, as it is not common to wash pastries and one may come to eat the pastries with the opposite food. This applies even if one plans to rinse the pastries prior to their use.

 

2. Bread which touched meat or milk:[7]

One is to avoid having bread [which he plans on using for other meals[8]] come into contact with meat or cheese. If bread came into contact with cheese or meat it is forbidden to eat it with the opposite food[9], if one of them is wet[10] [and one is to hence make a sign on them indicating their meat or dairy status[11]]. [However if one washes[12] the bread then it may eaten with the opposite food. Furthermore, if both the cheese or meat and bread are dry it is permitted to eat the bread with the opposite food even without washing the bread in between.[13]]

 

Q&A

If gravy spilled on a loaf of bread may one still use it for dairy?[14]

No. It does not suffice to wash or even peel the bread in such a case

 

3. Placing Kosher food on a Treif dish:[15]

  • Michaber:

    It is forbidden to place cooked Kosher foods on a non-Kosher plate or dish.[16] If one has done so he must wash the food. It is permitted to even initially place a raw food [which requires cooking] onto a non-Kosher plate.[17]

     

  • Rama:

    The above prohibition mentioned in Michaber only refers to placing moist Kosher foods on non-Kosher dishes. It is however permitted to place completely dry Kosher foods on Treif dishes even if they are cooked, so long as the non-Kosher dish has not been used for hot Treif foods. [If however the dish has been used for Treif hot foods, then it is forbidden to place on it even dry raw foods.]

     

  • Shach:[18]

    Even if the Treif plate has been used for hot Treif, if the plate is clean[19] then even wet kosher food may be placed on it in times of need. Furthermore, if the food is dry it may even be placed on a [dry[20]] dirty Treif plate, in times of need. However it is forbidden to use a Treif plate on constant basis due to worry that this may lead to using the dish for hot Kosher food.

     

  • Taz:[21]

    There must be a typing error in the Rama and rather it should read is as follows: All dry foods may be placed on Treif plates even if they were used for hot Treif. Wet foods or hot foods however may only be placed on Treif plates that have not been used with hot Treif.

     

  • Admur:[22]

It is permitted to use, on occasion[23], a clean Treif dish for cold Kosher foods, whether the foods are wet or dry.

 

Davar Charif:[24]

A wet Davar Charif is forbidden to be placed on a Treif dish that was used for hot Treif.[25] A dry Davar Charif may be placed on a Treif dish that is clean in a time of need.

 

Summary:

It is forbidden to place a moist Kosher food onto a dirty Treif plate.[26] Dry Kosher foods however may in times of need be placed on a clean Treif plate[27] [even if the plate has been used for hot Treif in the past[28]]. It is disputed[29] if a moist Kosher food may be placed onto a clean Treif plate if the plate has been used for hot Treif in the past. Admur rules it is permitted. A moist Kosher food may be placed on a Treif plate used for only cold Treif.[30]

It is forbidden to place a wet Charif food on a Treif plate which was used for hot foods.

It is always forbidden to use a Treif plate on a steady basis.[31] Some[32] rule it is forbidden to do so even on occasion if one does not need to do so, such as he has Kosher dishes available.

 

 

Chart

Clean plate used for cold Treif

Clean plate used for hot Treif

Dirty plate used for cold Treif

Dirty plate used for hot Treif

Dry cold food

Permitted

Permitted[33]

Permitted[34]

Permitted[35]

Wet cold food

Permitted[36]

Dispute[37]

Forbidden[38]

Forbidden[39]

Charif food

Permitted[40]

Forbidden if wet Permitted if dry

 

 

Hot

Permitted[41]

Forbidden[42]

Forbidden

Forbidden

4. Cold meat or cheese which was used with an opposite type plate or spoon:[43]

If the plate is clean then the food is permitted, and the vessel is to be washed. 

 

What is one to do if he realized in middle of eating a yogurt that he is using a meat spoon?

One is to clean the spoon. The yogurt remains permitted unless one knows the spoon was dirty.

 

5. Placing Issur onto a Kosher plate:[44]

It is forbidden to initially place an Issur food onto a Heter plate if it is not common to wash the plate prior to its use. This applies even if the Issur and plate are cold.

 

6. Tatah Gavar: The laws if hot meat or cheese/milk fall on each other:[45]

*Regarding Tatah Gavar by other Issurim, including by a piece of meat which has become forbidden due to milk, see chapter 105/5-7.

 

A. Bottom is hot:

Whenever meat and cheese fall onto each other, and the bottom piece is hot, both the meat and cheese are forbidden [unless one has 60x].[46]  This is because the bottom temperature dominates over the upper piece [Tatah Gavar] and thus transfers taste to it. It likewise absorbs the taste of the upper piece, thus prohibiting both pieces unless one has 60x, in which case that piece would be permitted. This law applies whether or not the upper food is cold or hot.

  • Michaber:

    The food must have enough salt to consider it inedible due to its salt for it to be defined as hot.[92] If there is not enough salt placed on the food to consider it inedible, it is considered as if it is cold.

     

  • Rama:

If there is not enough salt placed on the food to consider it inedible, then even if it was salted on both sides, it is considered as if it were cold. However there are opinions which rule that we are no longer expert in the amount of salt required to deem a food as hot, and therefore one is to consider all salted foods as hot, even if it was merely slightly salted[93]. Practically it is proper[94] to be stringent like this opinion, unless it’s a case of great loss. [See footnote for ruling of Admur[95]]

If meat was salted on only one side to the point it is inedible: [96] Even if the meat was only salted on one side, if it is inedible due to the salt [according to the Michaber, or even if it is edible according to the Rama] it is considered hot.

 

Q&A

How much salt according to the Rama is needed to render a food hot?[97]

It must have a sizeable amount.[98] A mere sprinkle of salt is disregarded even according to the Rama.

 

B.  How long must the salt remain on the meat for it to be considered hot?

  • Michaber:[99]

    If the salt has remained on the piece for Shiur Melicha [18/24 minutes] the piece has a hot Keli Rishon status, until the salt is washed off. Until 18 minutes however the piece is considered cold.[100]

     

  • Rama:[101]

    There are opinions which rule[102] [that only within the first 18 minutes of the salt is the piece considered hot, while] after 18 minutes it loses its hot status. Practically, one is to be stringent like the Michaber, and thus consider the piece always hot even after 18 minutes. However in a case of great loss and it is for the need of a Mitzvah feast one may be lenient to consider the food cold after 18 minutes. Otherwise however one may not be lenient.

     

  • Shach:[103]

The meat is always considered hot both within and after 18 minutes if it has already been salted for its blood, and one may not be lenient even in a case of great loss.[104] Thus the Shach is stringent like the Rama regarding prior to 18 minutes, and is stringent like the Michaber regarding after 18 minutes.

[For opinion of Taz see Footnote![105]]

 

C. The meat was salted to remove its blood:[106]

When meat is salted for the purpose of removing its blood then within 18 minutes it is considered hot according to all. After 18 minutes it is disputed between the Michaber/Rama[107] whether it is considered hot. The Michaber rules it is no longer considered hot, while the Rama rules it is still considered hot unless it’s a case of great loss and is needed for the need of a Mitzvah meal.

 

D. The food has been salted for preservation:[108]

All food which has been salted for preservation is considered hot even after its salt has been rinsed off, until it is soaked in water.

 

Summary:

If meat or cheese has been salted even slightly, it is considered hot. It is disputed[109] whether one may be lenient in a case of great loss which also involves the need of a Mitzvah, if the food has remained in the salt over 18 minutes.

 

Summary of Opinions:

  • Michaber:

    Is only considered hot if is salted to point is inedible, and only after 18 minutes.

  • Rama:

    Is always considered hot even with a slight amount of salt, and both within and past 18 minutes. In case of great loss which is also a Seudas Mitzvah may be lenient past 18 minutes.

  • Shach:

Is always considered hot, and may not be lenient even in case of great loss

 

11. Salted meat or cheese which came into contact with each other:

Refer to “A Semicha Aid for Learning the Laws of Taaruvos” Chapter 105 Halacha 5 for a full overview of this subject!

 

A. The cheese and meat are both dry:[110]

If both the meat and cheese are dry, then even if they are salted it suffices to merely wash off the meat and cheese.[111] Similarly if the meat and cheese are not salted but are wet one is required to wash them. [If the cheese or meat is salted and wet but the moisture is not due to the salt, it is considered as if it is not salted.[112]]

 

B. The cheese and meat is moist and salted to the point that they are considered hot as explained above:

  • Michaber:

    Both are salted and lean:[113] If the cheese and meat are both lean, then if both have been salted to the point that they are considered hot, both the meat and cheese require a peel worth removed, and the rest remains Kosher.

    Both are salted and one is fatty: [114] If both the cheese and meat are salted and one of the pieces is fatty, whether the meat or cheese[115], they are both completely forbidden unless there is 60x against one of them.

    One is salted and both are lean: [116] If only one of the pieces, either the meat or cheese, have been salted to the point that they are considered hot, then if both are lean, the salted piece is completely Kosher[117] and simply requires a rinsing, while the unsalted piece requires a peel worth removed from it. There is no differentiation whether the salted piece is on top or on bottom.[118]

    One is salted and one is fatty:[119] If only one of the pieces, either the meat or cheese, have been salted to the point that they are considered hot, and one of the pieces are fatty, whether the meat or the cheese, then if the salted piece is on bottom then the top piece is Treif unless there is 60x, while the salted piece requires a mere rinsing[120]. However if the salted piece is on top while the unsalted is on bottom then the unsalted piece suffices with the mere removal of a peel worth in the area of contact while the salted piece requires a mere rinsing.

     

  • Example 1: If a drop of cold milk falls onto a piece of hot meat the meat is forbidden unless it contains 60x.
  • Example 2: If cold meat falls into hot milk the meat and milk are forbidden, unless the milk contains 60x the meat, in which case only the meat is forbidden.

     

    B. Bottom is cold and top is hot:

    Whenever meat and cheese fall onto each other, and the bottom piece is cold[47] while the top is hot[48], both the meat and cheese are to have a peels worth removed [“Kdei Kelipa”] from their area of contact and the remaining meat and cheese is permitted. This is because the bottom temperature dominates over the upper hot piece [Tatah Gavar] and thus cools it off prior to it having the ability to transfer taste.[49] Nevertheless until it is able to cool it down it absorbs a taste into the peel area of contact, and it hence must be removed.

  • Example 1: If a drop of hot milk falls onto a piece of cold meat the meat must have a peels worth removed from its area of contact. If however Nifsak Hakiluach everything remains permitted.[50]
  • Example 2: If hot meat falls into cold milk the meat must have a peels worth removed from its area of contact. This applies even if “Nifsak Hakiluach”.[51] Regarding the law of the milk-see next!

 

C. The definition of hot:

If in the above cases the hot meat was placed in a Keli Sheiyni please refer to the laws of a Davar Gush [Halacha ?] for reference on whether it still retains its Keli Rishon status.[52]

 

Q&A

If milk fell into a chicken soup and it does not contain 60x may one add more soup?

No. It is forbidden to add more soup and the entire mixture is forbidden.[53] Some[54] rule that this applies even according to the Michaber and the Sefaradi custom unless it is a case of great loss, great need, or is needed for Kavod Shabbos.

 

7. The law of Kdei Kelipa:

A. The laws of Kdei Kelipah by liquids:

In all cases that it is impossible to remove a peel worth from the food, such as by liquids, the food is permitted without needing to remove any of its content, even if it does not have 60x its peels worth.[55] [However there are opinions[56] which rule that whenever it is not possible to remove a peels worth, such as by liquids, then the liquid must contain 60x against its peel worth for it to remain Kosher.]

  • Example: If hot meat falls into cold milk the milk remains Kosher. [However others rule the milk must have 60x a peels worth of its milk and only then does it remain Kosher.]

 

B. The law if one cooked a solid without removing its Kelipa:

  • Example: If hot meat falls into cold milk the meat must have a peels worth removed from its area of contact. If that meat was then cooked without having its Kelipa removed, what is the law of the food?
  • Rama:[57]

    The food remains permitted even if the food does not contain 60x the peel of the meat which was cooked with it.

     

  • Shach:[58]

    Even according to the Rama the food only remains permitted without 60x when the peel is no longer intact, such as is the case by liquids or by meat which has disintegrated. However in a case that the food which requires a peels worth removed has remained intact even after it was cooked, then that food which it was cooked in requires 60x the Kelipah worth of that food.[59]

     

  • Taz:[60]

Whenever one has cooked a food which requires the removal of its Kelipa without having removed it, the cooked food now needs 60x versus the peels worth. This applies whether or not the peel of the food has remained intact or has disintegrated.

 

8. Cold Meat which fell into cold milk:

This law is dependent on the following factors:

  • Today even Sefaradim are stringent like the Rama to consider all foods fatty unless it involves a case of loss.[121]

     

  • Rama:

    Whenever the meat and cheese are moist and one of the piece has been salted to the point that it is considered hot, if it contacts an opposite piece they are both Treif[122] unless there is 60x against one of the pieces.[123] There is no ramification in this ruling regarding which piece is salted[124], or whether they are lean or fatty[125], or whether the salted piece is on top and or on bottom.[126] However in a case of great loss one can be lenient to permit the salted piece.[127] Likewise in a case of great loss one may be lenient to only remove a Kelipa if one knows the piece is lean.[128]

    If the pieces are dry: Then they do not absorb from each other.

     

  • In all cases that one of the foods contains 60x versus the other, nevertheless a Kelipa must be removed.[129]

 

C. Meat fell into salted cold milk:[130]

  • Rama in Toras Chatas:

    The meat is forbidden while the milk is permitted.

     

  • Shach
  1. Is the meat raw or cooked?
  2. Is the meat spiced, salted, and does it contain slits.

 

A. Raw unsalted meat:

Raw meat which has fallen into milk the meat is to be washed and may then be eaten.[61] Even if the meat has been spiced [without salt] or has slits, the meat nevertheless remains Kosher and merely requires to be rinsed off.[62] However there are Poskim[63] which rule that if the meat has slits or is spiced it is forbidden even in a case of great loss. Practically Admur[64] rules one may be lenient in a case of great loss.

 

B. Pre-Cooked or pre-roasted meat which is not salted:[65]

  • Michaber:[66]

    If cold unsalted meat fell into cold milk the meat remains permitted even if the meat has been roasted [and even if the meat contains slits or is spiced]. 

     

  • Rama:[67]

    If cold meat which is cooked, roasted or baked fell into milk there are opinions[68] which rule that the meat requires a peel worth removed from it[69], and if the meat has been spiced or has slits then the entire meat is forbidden. Practically one is to be stringent unless it involves a great loss.[70]

     

  • Shach:[71]

    One is to be stringent even in a case of great loss to prohibit the meat if the meat was cooked and was spiced or has slits, as there are opinions which forbid the meat even if it was raw.

     

  • Taz:[72] If the pre-cooked meat or milk was even slightly salted, then if it has spices or slits, it is forbidden even in a case of great loss. If however it was not salted then one may be lenient in a case of great loss as rules the Rama.[73]

 

The reason why cooked meat is more stringent than raw:[74] Is because the cooking softens the meat thus allowing it to absorb milk to occur.

The law of the milk[75]: The milk itself remains permitted as it does not absorb from the meat. If however the meat is salted see next case.

 

C. Salted meat which fell into cold milk:

If the meat is salted then everything is Treif including the milk unless there is 60x.[76]

 

Background of above dispute:

The Shach[77] brings a summary of three different opinions amongst the Rishonim and early Achronim with regards to how to understand this case in the Gemara. The main issue of debate is to what was the state of the goose mentioned in the Gemara; Was it raw? Was it previously cooked and cold? Was it previously cooked and still hot?

The following are the opinions:

  1. If the meat is roasted, even if it is cold it needs a Kelipa. If the meat is spiced or has slits it is entirely forbidden even if raw.[78]Thus they hold the Gemara forbids even raw meat that is spiced or has slits.
  2. If the meat is cold it only needs to be washed, even if it was fully cooked. If the meat is hot it requires a Kelipa. If the meat is hot and is spiced or has slits it is entirely forbidden.[79] Thus they hold the Gemara forbids only hot meat that is spiced or has slits, and not cold meat and certainly not raw meat.
  3. If the meat is cold it only requires a Kelipa even if it was previously cooked. If the meat is cold but was spiced or has slits, then if it was cooked it is entirely forbidden.[80] Thus they hold the Gemara forbids even cold cooked meat that is spiced or has slits, however not raw meat.

The Michaber rules like the 2nd opinion. The Rama brings and suspects for the 3rd opinion unless it is a case of great loss. The Shach rules like the 3rd opinion. The Peri Chadash and Admur rule like the first opinion unless in a case of great loss.

 

Summary and Halacha Lemaaseh:

If meat or poultry which is spiced or contains slits falls into milk, the meat is forbidden while the milk is permitted.[81] This applies even if the meat is raw and cold. In a case of great loss however one may be lenient to permit the meat, if the meat is raw. If the meat is cooked and is slit or spiced, even if it is now cold, the meat is forbidden.[82] If the meat is not spiced and does not contain slits then if it is raw, the meat merely requires rinsing. If the meat is cooked, it requires a Kelipa removed even if it is cold.

 

Q&A

What is the law if milk spilled onto cooked chicken in one’s fridge?

Some Poskim[83] rule the chicken is Kosher[84] and one is to wash the chicken and eat it cold without warming it up[85]. However seemingly according to the ruling of Admur[86] the chicken is forbidden unless it involves a great loss, or time of need, in which case one may do as above.

 

Chart of Opinions

 

 

Is not Slit or spicy

Is Slit or Spicy

Raw

Rinse off meat

Dispute if meat is forbidden. In time of great loss is permitted

Cold and cooked

Dispute if must remove Kelipa

Dispute if meat requires 60x.

Hot and cooked

Kelipa is required

Forbidden

 

9. Hot roasted meat fell into cold milk:[87]

If the meat is spiced or has slits: If hot roasted meat which contains slits or is spiced fell into cold milk the meat is forbidden.[88] However the milk itself only requires a Kelipah and is thus entirely Kosher[89]. [According to the Rama[90] even if the roast is now cold or slit, when spiced the meat is forbidden.]

If the meat is not spiced or slit: If the meat is not spiced and does not contain slits then the meat requires a Kelipah, while the milk itself is completely permitted, as Tatah Gavar.

 

Salted meat and cheese/milk which contact each other [Halachas 10-11]

Introduction:

Food which is salted under certain circumstances is considered to be hot. Thus if this food contacts another food there is possibility that taste has transferred from the salted food to the other food. This comes into play in the laws of Basar Bechalav regarding if salted meat cheese or milk come into contact with each other.

The ruling of such a case is subject to dispute on various grounds. It is disputed amongst the Poskim as to when a salted item is defined as hot; How much salt must be placed? How long must the salt remain on the piece? If the piece is not defined as hot then obviously no taste is transferred and everything remains Kosher. Even if the piece is defined as hot it is subject to dispute amongst the Poskim, and dependent on different aspects of the case, regarding if any or both foods become forbidden, and as to how much of each food is forbidden.

In Halacha 10 will be explained the ruling of when a salted food is defined as hot.

In Halacha 11 will be explained the ruling regarding if salted meat defined as hot comes into contact with cheese.

 

10. When is a salted food considered hot?[91]

A. How much salt must be placed onto the food for it to be considered hot?

Both the meat and milk are forbidden.

 

Summary and Halacha Lemaaseh:

Whenever the meat and cheese are moist and one of the pieces has been salted to the point that it is considered hot, then if it contacts an opposite piece they are both Treif[131] unless there is 60x against one of the pieces.[132] There is no ramification in this ruling regarding which piece is salted[133], or whether they are lean or fatty[134], or whether the salted piece is on top and or on bottom.[135] However in a case of great loss one can be lenient to permit the salted piece.[136] Likewise in a case of great loss one may be lenient to only remove a Kelipa if one knows the piece is lean.[137]

If the pieces are dry: Then they do not absorb from each other.

 

12.  The law regarding gravy of salted meats:[138]

All gravy of salted meat has a status of being hot like a Keli Rishon even if the meat was only slightly salted.[139] Thus if such gravy were to fall onto cheese everything is Treif unless there is 60x.[140] Likewise if some of this gravy were to fall on a milk utensil then that utensil now becomes Treif and needs to be Kashered. 

 

13. Law of Kavush:[141]

If meat soaked in milk for 24 hours the entire mixture is forbidden, unless there is 60x in one food versus the other. If meat and cheese soaked in liquid for 24 hours, the entire mixture is forbidden unless there is 60x versus one of the foods, in which case that food alone is forbidden. If one is unsure whether the meat and milk remained together for 24 hours they are both permitted.

If meat and cheese soaked within vinegar or salty water between 10-18 minutes it is forbidden to cook the meat or cheese, although it remains permitted to be eaten. If they remained together for 18 minutes or more they are both forbidden to be eaten.[142]

 

Q&A

What is the law if milk was placed in a meat container?[143]

If the milk remained in the container for 24 hours consecutively, the milk is Kosher while the container must be Kashered.

 

What is the law if chicken soup was placed in a dairy container?

If the soup was poured directly from the pot onto the container while the soup was still hot the soup remains Kosher while the container must be Kashered. Even if the soup was cold when placed into the container, if the soup remained in the container for 24 hours consecutively, the soup is Kosher while the container must be Kashered.

 


[1] Michaber 91/1

[2] Shach 91/1 in name of Bach; So rules also Hakashrus 10/54

[3] Based on 91/2

[4] As one is never allowed to initially cause foods to be required washing for Kashrus purposes, as one may come to forget to do so. [ibid]

[5] Michaber 91/2

[6] Shach 91/1

[7] 91/3

[8] Sharreiy Yoreh Deah 91

[9] Michaber 91/3

[10] Shach 91/4

[11] Yad Yehuda 4; Rav Poalim 11

[12] Some rule it does not suffice to wash bread, and rather one must cut off the area of contact. [Kaf Hachaim 91/16 in name of Peri Hatoar and Kneses Hagedola, and so rules Hakashrus 10/56] The Kaf Hachaim suggests that perhaps the above is referring to the hard part of the bread, such as when meat touched its crusty part, while if it touched the inner part which is soft, all would agree it requires a Kelipa.

[13] Shach 91/4

[14] Kaf Hachaim 91/16 in name of Zivcheiy Tzedek

[15] 91/2

[16] Being that a cooked food is not commonly washed, and we therefore suspect one may come to eat the food prior to washing off the Issur remnants which it acquired through being placed on the plate. [ibid]

[17] As it is common to wash foods prior to cooking them, and there is thus no need to suspect that one may come to eat Issur. [ibid]

[18] 91/3

[19] Such as one has just cleaned the plate. [Shach ibid]

[20] As if the leftover food is moist, it will certainly stick to the Kosher food and is forbidden even in accordance to the Shach.

[21] Taz 91/3

[22] 451/2

[23] Due to suspicion one may come to use it for hot foods on Pesach. [ibid] In Yoreh Deah 121/5 Rama rules this to mean that if one has no other vessels available then he may use it, and not that it may be used once in a while even if other vessels are available. This however is not the simple understanding from the words of Admur. [See Piskeiy Admur Yoreh Deah p. 122]

[24] Shach 91/3

[25] As a wet Davar Charif has ability to extract taste from inside the dish.

[26] Shach; Taz; Michaber; Rama

[27] Rama

[28] Shach; Taz as he re-writes the wording of the Rama; However from the current wording of the Rama it is forbidden if the plate was used for hot.

[29] Taz; Michaber rule it is forbidden. Shach rules it is permitted.

[30] Admur 451/2; Shach 91/3; Taz 91/3 unlike the simple reading of the Rama 91/2

[31] Admur 451/2

[32] Rama Yoreh Deah 121/5

[33] Taz; Unlike the simple reading of the Rama which rules it is forbidden.

[34] Shach

[35] Shach regarding dry; Taz regarding used for hot

[36] Shach and Taz; Unlike Rama

[37] Taz; Rama; Michaber rule it is forbidden. Shach rules it is permitted.

[38] Shach

[39] Shach; Taz; Rama; Michaber

[40] Toras Chatas brought in Shach 91/3

[41] Taz

[42] Taz

[43] Based on Admur 451/2; Shach 91/3

[44] Shach 91/2

[45] 91/4

[46] The reason why according to the Michaber the piece of meat requires 60x the milk and not just merely a fingers width, as he rules in 105/4 that when Issur falls on Heter, the Heter only needs a finger worth and not 60x, this is because a) There are opinions which hold that milk is a fatty substance which thus absorbs itself completely into the piece. Or b) The piece of meat which it fell on was fatty. [Shach 92/3; Taz 92/3] According to the Rama all pieces of meat are considered fatty and thus he always requires 60x by any case of Issur falling on Heter meat.

[47] Below 110 Fahrenheit

[48] 110 Fahrenheit

[49] Taz 91/6

[50] Rama 92/7; Even Shach 91/7 agrees to this ruling as he was only referring to a case of Davar Gush and not a liquid.

[51] Shach 91/7 as the Shach is stringent regarding a Davar Gush to always consider it a Keli Rishon if it is still hot.

[52] Regarding if the hot piece is a Keli Sheiyni this enters into a dispute with regards to the definition of a Davar Gush as a Keli Rishon or Sheiyni. Refer to: Shach 91/7; Rama 94/7; Taz 94/14; Shach 105/8

[53] Rama 99/5

The reason: As a) We apply the rule of Chanan by this mixture. B) One may never initially nullify an Issur, even if it is Rabbinical.

[54] Kaf Hachaim 92/23; 99/63

Background: The Michaber 99/6 rules one may always add to a Rabbinical Issur; However see Taz 98/5 that chicken with milk has the same status as meat with milk which is Biblical, and hence, accordingly, it would be forbidden to add food to the mixture. Furthermore see Shach 99/9 that even according to the Michaber this allowance to add Heter only applies by a mixture that does not become Chanan, and since Basar Bechalav is Chanan perhaps the allowance would not apply even by chicken and milk which is a Rabbinical Chanan. Practically some Poskim rule that we apply the rule of Chanan by all Basar Bechalav mixtures, even of Rabbinical nature, even according to the Michaber. [Erech Hashulchan 92/6; Koheles Yehuda 92/4 that so is the opinion of the Besi Yosef in chapter 100] Other Poskim however rule that the rule of Chanan does not apply by any Rabbinical mixture, even of Basar Bechalav, and hence according to the Michaber one may even initially add more food to the mixture to attain 60x versus the milk. [Rambam Machalos Assuros 15; Peri Chadash 92/17; Peri Toar 99/11] The Kaf Hachaim ibid concludes that practically even those that follow the Michaber are to be stringent unless it is a case of great loss, great need, or is needed for Kavod Shabbos.

[55] Michaber and Rama 91/4; Shach 91/8

[56] Riva; Rashal brought in Taz 91/7

[57] Rama 91/4

[58] 91/8

[59] The reason for this is :

[60] 91/7

[61] Michaber 91/4

[62] Michaber/Rama 91/7; Shach 91/21; Taz 91/12

[63] Gra 18; Peri Chadash 18; See Shach 91/21; This follows the following opinions in Rishonim: Sefer Hateruma; Rosh; Tur; Mahril

[64] 465/5; See Piskeiy Admur p. 128

[65] 91/7

[66] Implied in 91/7 from fact he only says the Halacha regarding hot meat. This follows the following opinions in Rishonim: Ran; Rashba; Raavad.

[67] 92/7, as learned in Shach 91/21 and 25

[68] Smak; Mordechaiy; Oar Zarua

[69] The Rama simply states “and there are opinions which rule that this is the law by cold cooked meat as well”. It is evident from the opinions brought in Shach 21 that this means as stated above, that if the meat had slits or was spiced then it is fully forbidden, as ruled the Michaber regarding hot meat with slits and spices, and if the meat was not spiced or slit, it is nevertheless forbidden a peel’s worth as rules the Michaber regarding hot meat which was not spiced.

[70] So rules also Admur 465/5, however perhaps there it is referring to raw meat.

[71] Shach 91/21; This follows the following opinions in Rishonim: Smak; Mordechaiy; Oar Zarua

[72] 91/12

[73] The Taz understands the ruling of the Rama to be going on a case that the meat which fell in the milk was partially salted, and hence he learns the Rama is lenient on two aspects; 1. To consider slightly salted meat as not being hot, and 2. To rely on opinion of Michaber that only when the cooked meat is hot does it become forbidden. The Taz argues that one cannot be lenient on two aspects in the same case. Hence he rules that only if the meat and milk has not been salted at all is the meat kosher in a case of great loss.

[74] Shach 91/25

[75] Shach 91/25

[76] Taz 91/12; Peri Megadim; Hakashrus 10/65

[77] 91/21

[78] So rules Sefer Hateruma; Rosh; Tur; Mahril

[79] Ran; Rashba; Raavad

[80] Smak; Mordechaiy; Oar Zarua

[81] Admur 465/5 as rules Peri Chadash and Gr”a

[82] Shach ibid unlike Rama ibid

[83] Har Tzevi 85

[84] They are lenient like the Michaber over the Rama/Shach as 1. Chicken with milk is only Rabbinical 2. Eating chicken with milk that was not cooked together is further only Rabbinical, 3. The Taz learns the entire case to be dealing with salted meat, and hence when not salted all would agree one can be lenient.

[85] As there may be some milk residue in the chicken which can get cooked when heated.

[86] 465/5; To note that the case there in Admur refers to goose meat, and nevertheless Admur suspects for the most stringent opinion mentioned here.

[87] 91/7

[88] Michaber 91/7

[89] Michaber 91/4 see there Shach 91/8

[90] 92/7

[91] 91/5

[92] This is similar to meat which is salted for its blood of which the ruling is it must be salted until it is inedible due to the salt. [ibid]

[93] Like meat which is salted for roasting to remove its blood. [ibid] See Q&A for exact definition!

[94] Hence even the Rama does not rule like this stringent opinion from the letter of the law, and simply suggests its practice. [Kaf Hachaim 91/38]

[95] See 455/30 that Admur rules plainly like the Michaber that dough for Matzah which had salt added to it is not considered hot, as salted items are only considered hot when they are inedible due to the salt. [ibid] Perhaps however this ruling of Admur only applies in a case of Matzah, as even if we were to consider the Matzah hot, it is not certain that it has become Chameitz. Hence Admur rules like the Michaber which is the main opinion.

[96] Rama 91/5

[97] Kaf Hachaim 91/37

[98] Some have written this is defined as enough salt to be readily tasted as being over salty. [Hakashrus 10/63]

[99] 91/5

[100] Shach 91/11

The ruling when salting to remove blood: The Michaber here rules completely to the contrary of how he rules regarding salting meat for its blood. In the latter case he rules [69/20] that within 18 minutes the meat is considered hot while after 18 minutes it is considered cold. Here however he rules the opposite, that until 18 minutes it is considered cold, while past 18 minutes it is considered hot. The reason behind this differentiation is because when salting an item to remove its blood the salt and blood cause the meat to be hot for its first 18 minutes. After 18 minutes however the power of the salt has been exhumed. When salting however a plain piece of food that does not contain blood, then the salt only begins to effect the heat of the food after 18 minutes, and retains that heat until it is washed off. [Shach 91/11]

[101] 91/5; So rules Rama also in 69/20 regarding meat that was salted and was placed in a vessels after Shiur Melicha without being washed.

[102] The Rama compares this case to the ruling regarding one who salted meat for blood in which case such an opinion exists, that after 18 minutes the meat is no longer hot. The Rama there rules similarly that in a case of great loss, which involves the need of a Seudas Mitzvah one may be lenient. [see 69/20]

[103] 91/11

[104] So is understood from Shach ibid; and Beir Heiytiv 91/10; so rules Peri Megadim S.D. 91/11 and Darkeiy Halacha 91/5-1

The Rama compares this case to the ruling of the Toras Habayis regarding one who salted meat for blood and later found that one of the pieces were Treif, in which case such an opinion exists, that in a case of great loss one may be lenient. Similarly the Rama learns here that after 18 minutes one may be lenient in a case of great loss. The Shach however explains that the original case is different, as since the salt has removed blood from the meat, according to many opinions it is no longer hot after 18 minutes. However here that the salt has never used up its strength during the 18 minutes, it is certainly hot after 18 minutes.

[105] The Taz in 69/47 suggests the same differentiation as does the Shach here that there is a difference between a food which was salted for blood, and a food which was never salted, in which case if the food was never salted certainly the food would be considered hot even after 18 minutes. Thus in conclusion it would seem that both the Shach and Taz argue on the conclusion of the Rama.

[106] 69/20; Shach 91/11

[107] 69/20; This dispute dates back to Rashi and Tosafos [Maaseh Derashi]. See Taz 69/46 that according to the Michaber the meat is considered cold after it waits Shiur Melicha. See Shach 69/80 and 85 that according to the Rama it is still considered hot.

[108] Michaber 91/5

[109] Michaber, Shach and Taz are stringent; Rama is lenient.

[110] Michaber and Rama 91/5

[111] As without moisture, absorption is unattainable.

[112] Peri Megadim 91 S.D. 17 see Kaf Hachaim 91/49

[113] Michaber 91/5, in 6 the Michaber explains that it is referring to lean pieces.

[114] Michaber 91/6

[115] Shach 91/19

[116] Michaber 91/5, in 6 the Michaber explains that it is referring to lean pieces.

[117] As the salted piece never absorbs the gravy of the other piece unless that other piece is also salted. [ibid] So rules Michaber here and in 105/11 and is the first opinion in 70/3.

[118] Although in general we rule Tatah Gavar as ruled the Michaber in 91/4; nevertheless this is only relevant when it is possible for the bottom piece to forbid the top piece completely, such as it was heated by fire, or is fatty and salted. However here that both pieces are lean, and hence the salt even when on bottom can only penetrate a Kelipa, it makes no difference if it is on top or on bottom, as either way it forbids the same amount. [Shach 91/12]

[119] Michaber 91/6 as explained in Shach 91/12 and as explicitly rules Michaber 105/11 that when only one piece is salted and they are fatty we do say Tatah Gavar.

[120] The bottom piece is permitted as rules Michaber explicitly in 105/10 that the salted piece never becomes forbidden if the other piece is not salted. This applies even if the pieces are fatty, as the previous Halacha [105/9] was referring to even cases that the Issur or Heter is fatty, and in 105/10 he states that “with what were these words referring to, only when both are salted….”! Now although in 91/6 the Michaber rules if either of the foods are fatty they are both forbidden, one must conclude that case is referring to that both the meat and cheese have been salted, otherwise it forms a contradiction with 105/10. Likewise this is implied from the case there as the Michaber does not differentiate between which piece is on bottom hence clearly implying we are discussing a case that both pieces were salted. This is also the logical approach as how would the salted piece absorb taste simply due to the other piece containing fat, there is no heat to transfer the taste to the salted piece.

[121] Kaf Hachaim 91/44

[122] Rama 105/10 that even the salted piece is Treif unless in a case of [great-Shach 70/20] loss.

Unlike Michaber which rules that only the unsalted piece is Treif if they are both lean, and even then it only requires a peels worth. The reason of the Rama is because we are no longer expert into what is defined as lean and what is defined as fatty.

[123] In a case of great loss one may be lenient to permit the salted piece if one knows that both pieces are lean. [See Hakashrus 10/64; 105/9 towards end of Rama]

[124] According to the Michaber the salted piece is never Treif even if both pieces are fatty. [105/10; first opinion in 70/3] According to the Rama however both pieces are always forbidden. [Rama 105/10] Now, although the Rama here differentiates between if the unsalted food is liquidly in which case if the salted food is moist both are forbidden, while if the salted food is dry, or the unsalted food is not liquidly, the salted piece is Kosher, seemingly this is going on the letter of the law, of which we rule the unsalted piece is permitted. Alternatively it has relevance in a case of great loss in which the Rama rules [105/10] that one may be lenient to permit the unsalted piece.

The Shach [70/20] brings that elsewhere the Rama is completely lenient to permit the salted piece. So concludes also the Peri Megadim 105/39. So is also implied from Admur 467/50 that we are always lenient to permit the salted piece if the other piece was not salted.

[125] Rama 105/9; Shach 91/20

[126] Rama 105/11

[127] 105/10

[128] 105/9

[129] Hakashrus 10/64; To suspect for the ruling of the Michaber that a Kelipa is forbidden. [Shach 105/38]

[130] Shach 91/16

[131] Rama 105/10 that even the salted piece is Treif unless in a case of [great-Shach 70/20] loss. Unlike the Michaber which rules that only the unsalted piece is Treif, and if both are lean then it only requires a peels worth.

[132] In a case of great loss, if only one piece was salted, one may be lenient to permit the salted piece. [See Hakashrus 10/64; 105/9 towards end of Rama]

[133] According to the Michaber if only one piece is salted the salted piece is never Treif even if both pieces are fatty. [105/10; first opinion in 70/3] According to the Rama however both pieces are always forbidden. [Rama 105/10] Now, although the Rama here differentiates between if the unsalted food is liquidly in which case if the salted food is moist both are forbidden, while if the salted food is dry, or the unsalted food is not liquidly, the salted piece is Kosher, seemingly this is going on the letter of the law, of which we rule the unsalted piece is permitted. Alternatively it has relevance in a case of great loss in which the Rama rules [105/10] that one may be lenient to permit the unsalted piece.

The Shach [70/20] brings that elsewhere the Rama is completely lenient to permit the salted piece. So concludes also the Peri Megadim 105/39. So is also implied from Admur 467/50 that we are always lenient to permit the salted piece if the other piece was not salted.

[134] Rama 105/9; Shach 91/20

[135] Rama 105/11

[136] 105/10

[137] 105/9

[138] Rama 91/5

[139] This applies even according to the Michaber which rules slightly salted meat is not considered hot, nevertheless its gravy is considered hot. Hence there is likewise no leniency in a case of great loss, as was lenient the Rama with regards to slightly salted meat.

[140] It requires 60x and not merely a Kelipa being that Tzir is salted and carries the laws of a salted item of which we do not apply the rule of Tatah Gavar.

[141] 105/1

[142] Hakashrus 10/61

[143] Hakashrus 10/69

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